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Author Topic:   New Species of Homo Discovered: Homo naledi
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 22 of 85 (768308)
09-10-2015 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
09-10-2015 2:52 PM


Evidence again
The actual facts about the bones don't matter to evolutionists either.
That's not true. The exact details of the various bones are sometimes argued over for decades. Check out some issues of American Journal of Physical Anthropology. Here is a link to the table of contents of the current issue:
Just a moment...
I have seen and studied casts of many of the important and some of the not-to-important finds prior to about 1980, the period when I studied fossil man in graduate school. That was an important part of our training.
So, for you to claim that the actual facts about the bones don't matter--once again you are entirely wrong. (Don't you ever tire of being wrong?)
We never see them, you know, the evidence is almost never given, certainly not when we're being introduced to a new "find." When we are shown the bones they are a pretty pathetic paltry collection of half a dozen fragments some dog must have chewed.
You won't find those casts at Wal-Mart, as they are expensive to make because they have to be extremely accurate. There's no point in casts that aren't accurate.
Here's a link to one of the better sources:
pennfossilcasting.com - pennfossilcasting Resources and Information.
But you complain about not seeing the actual evidence? It is there if you seek it out. You don't really expect folks to bring it to your door, do you?
(Not that you would accept it they did...)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:52 PM Faith has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 39 of 85 (768350)
09-10-2015 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
09-10-2015 10:39 PM


On Lucy
Yeah, "Lucy" is a case of an extreme paucity of actual bones.
Who told you that?
And how do you know just how many bones, or how many of any particular bones, are needed to make some judgements regarding the nature of the individual?
Are you listening to creationists or following creationist websites?
It certainly doesn't seem like you have followed the scientific literature regarding Lucy and other finds of the same general age.
How about looking up a few of the real scientific studies regarding Lucy and her kin and see what they say? This will definitely involve studying scientific journals, but any good university library should have a lot of those, or maybe they'll have on-line subscriptions to most of those them. At any rate, any good university library will have enough material on hand to get you started.
But you won't to that, will you? You'll just continue to make unfounded statements based on beliefs that you are afraid to examine in much detail for fear of finding them wanting.
But that's OK. You help make this site entertaining. It would be a lot less interesting for a lot of us if you actually looked at and realized the validity of the evidence we keep showing you.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 10:39 PM Faith has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 44 of 85 (768359)
09-11-2015 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
09-11-2015 12:07 AM


Re: incredible creationists
The thing is, and this should be obvious, if you compared the skeletons of a few dozen people randomly chosen today they would all be of different sizes, bone density etc. People from a hundred or more years ago tended to be smaller than people today, in England anyway as I understand it, women rarely being taller than five feet for instance. Or, compare the skeleton of a Scandinavian with a small Asian, a tall African with a pygmy. Facial features also differ widely, size and shape of skull, cheekbones, eye sockets, size of mouth, set of teeth, all differ, etc etc etc.
There is something really nave about the way these supposed humanish fossils are presented given the normal differences between people. They don't even bother to give measurements, how tall a person the skeletaon would have represented.
It is not the size that matters, it is the shape of the various bones. Shape differences are often determined by measurements and multivariate statistics. I did some of that in grad school--I was able to find similarities and differences among groups while including both males and females in my sample! That shows that size and sex-related differences can be factored out in favor of other morphological differences.
And you really should stop opining on osteology and paleontology as it is very clear you don't have a clue. Why continue to make yourself look foolish, and make your cause look weak and incompetent?
Edit to add: I have probably analyzed upwards of a thousand skeletons, and regularly help the local County Coroners on bone cases.
Edited by Coyote, : Addition

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 12:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 12:36 AM Coyote has replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2223 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 48 of 85 (768363)
09-11-2015 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
09-11-2015 12:36 AM


Re: incredible creationists
Whole arrays of skulls are often presented as if to prove differences between some ancient type of human and today's, but they all just look like normal variations on skulls you see walking down the street every day
To you, perhaps.
To someone who has some training in osteology--no.
Don't you think we really study these things, and really know something about what we're doing? Are you so clueless that you really think we're making this all up?
Just read some scientific journals, such as American Journal of Physical Anthropology and look at the level of detail in the analyses.
And perhaps learn something before you shoot off your mouth.
In science credibility is very important--those who are repeatedly wrong are scorned. Apparently that's not the case with apologetics...

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 12:36 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 12:50 AM Coyote has not replied

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