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Author Topic:   New Species of Homo Discovered: Homo naledi
Faith
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Posts: 31603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 31 of 85 (768336)
09-10-2015 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by DevilsAdvocate
09-10-2015 6:24 PM


Oh they probably provided evidence to each other but the average person had to be content with their artistic renderings in museums and popular science magazines.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-10-2015 6:24 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Coragyps, posted 09-10-2015 10:25 PM Faith has responded
 Message 40 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-10-2015 11:56 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 32 of 85 (768337)
09-10-2015 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tanypteryx
09-10-2015 7:53 PM


Oh I could assemble a skeleton myself. Only the parts to that one don't match each other.
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Faith
Member
Posts: 31603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 85 (768338)
09-10-2015 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by DevilsAdvocate
09-10-2015 6:16 PM


Hi there DA, long time no see you at EvC.

Yes, because you rather trust a handful of religious extremists with close to zero experience in the field than hundreds of thousands of scientists who have devoted their entire lives to scientific inquiry.

Oh you betcha, because those scientists are all under the spell of a false theory and read it into everything they see.

I don't know any religious extremists personally, but I do trust Gpd.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5388
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 34 of 85 (768341)
09-10-2015 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
09-10-2015 9:55 PM


Indeed. Snakes and donkeys have a physical presence and can vocalize a bit. It's easy to imagine them speaking. Once you swallow the concept of an unseeable, unheard Sky Guy existing, you can even more easily accept walking, talking serpents.
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Coragyps
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Posts: 5388
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 35 of 85 (768343)
09-10-2015 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
09-10-2015 9:57 PM


I saw "Lucy's" actual fossils in Houston, and I have the t-shirt to prove it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 9:57 PM Faith has responded

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Percy
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Posts: 18470
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 36 of 85 (768345)
09-10-2015 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
09-10-2015 9:55 PM


Couldn't believe Shrek. It was Donkey's claims, and Dragon, I had trouble with. Once you believe Shrek is real all of it falls into place. Certainly no problem with flying lizards and talking Donkeys once you know Shrek is real.

--Percy


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Faith
Member
Posts: 31603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 85 (768346)
09-10-2015 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Coragyps
09-10-2015 10:25 PM


Yeah, "Lucy" is a case of an extreme paucity of actual bones. But the scientific imagination has no problem with that.
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 39 by Coyote, posted 09-10-2015 11:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16095
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 38 of 85 (768348)
09-10-2015 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
09-10-2015 10:39 PM


Yeah, "Lucy" is a case of an extreme paucity of actual bones.

No, not really. If you want a case of extreme paucity, try counting all the talking snakes you've ever met.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 10:39 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 11:59 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 268 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 39 of 85 (768350)
09-10-2015 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
09-10-2015 10:39 PM


On Lucy
Yeah, "Lucy" is a case of an extreme paucity of actual bones.

Who told you that?

And how do you know just how many bones, or how many of any particular bones, are needed to make some judgements regarding the nature of the individual?

Are you listening to creationists or following creationist websites?

It certainly doesn't seem like you have followed the scientific literature regarding Lucy and other finds of the same general age.

How about looking up a few of the real scientific studies regarding Lucy and her kin and see what they say? This will definitely involve studying scientific journals, but any good university library should have a lot of those, or maybe they'll have on-line subscriptions to most of those them. At any rate, any good university library will have enough material on hand to get you started.

But you won't to that, will you? You'll just continue to make unfounded statements based on beliefs that you are afraid to examine in much detail for fear of finding them wanting.

But that's OK. You help make this site entertaining. It would be a lot less interesting for a lot of us if you actually looked at and realized the validity of the evidence we keep showing you.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1263 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 40 of 85 (768353)
09-10-2015 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
09-10-2015 9:57 PM


Faith,

You can see differences between these two sets skelatons by just looking at these photos. I am not a trained paleontologist but I can see very evident differences i.e. bone size, shape, curvature, etc. Just by a cursory glance (granted I have studied human anatomy pretty extensively in pre-med). This has nothing to do with one's faith (no pun intended), and everything to do with the acknowledgment of the evidence staring at you in your face. Yet you would rather blind and bind yourself by making the unsubstantiated argument that evolution could never occur. You have yet to provide any evidence that bolsters your claim, none.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 9:57 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 12:07 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 31603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 41 of 85 (768354)
09-10-2015 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Dr Adequate
09-10-2015 10:56 PM


Why make an issue of talking snakes when the Bible also has water turned to wine, people raised from the dead, Jesus raised from the dead, walking through walls, ascending straight up into heaven, Elijah taken straight to heaven in a chariot, an army of angels revealed surrounding Israel, angels appearing to various prophets, sun standing still or moving backward, dew on fleece when intended to show God's will, not on fleece next day for the same reason, pillar of smoke by day and fire by night to lead the Israelites across the wilderness, manna from heaven, millions of quail dropped on them when they complained about the manna, etc etc etc. And you make a big deal out of a talking snake?

Lucy has more bones than I remembered but still a pathetic excuse for a skeleton.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 10:56 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-11-2015 12:28 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 09-11-2015 12:14 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 79 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-11-2015 1:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 42 of 85 (768355)
09-11-2015 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by DevilsAdvocate
09-10-2015 11:56 PM


credulous science
The thing is, and this should be obvious, if you compared the skeletons of a few dozen people randomly chosen today they would all be of different sizes, bone density etc. People from a hundred or more years ago tended to be smaller than people today, in England anyway as I understand it, women rarely being taller than five feet for instance. Or, compare the skeleton of a Scandinavian with a small Asian, a tall African with a pygmy. Facial features also differ widely, size and shape of skull, cheekbones, eye sockets, size of mouth, set of teeth, all differ, etc etc etc.

There is something really na´ve about the way these supposed humanish fossils are presented given the normal differences between people. They don't even bother to give measurements, how tall a person the skeletaon would have represented.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-10-2015 11:56 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Coyote, posted 09-11-2015 12:33 AM Faith has responded
 Message 47 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-11-2015 12:37 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1263 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 43 of 85 (768356)
09-11-2015 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
09-10-2015 11:59 PM


Talk to any forensic scientist, they do not need an entire skelaton to identify a person. Of course the more complete a skeleton, the easier it is. Good think about most animal bodies is that they are symmetrical. Only one side is really required. In addition, ligaments, muscles and even facial estimations can be conducted on the skull and other skelatal remains. Estimates of facial features are conducted frequently in forensic science to identify the remains of John and Jane Does.
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 268 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 44 of 85 (768359)
09-11-2015 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
09-11-2015 12:07 AM


Re: incredible creationists
The thing is, and this should be obvious, if you compared the skeletons of a few dozen people randomly chosen today they would all be of different sizes, bone density etc. People from a hundred or more years ago tended to be smaller than people today, in England anyway as I understand it, women rarely being taller than five feet for instance. Or, compare the skeleton of a Scandinavian with a small Asian, a tall African with a pygmy. Facial features also differ widely, size and shape of skull, cheekbones, eye sockets, size of mouth, set of teeth, all differ, etc etc etc.

There is something really na´ve about the way these supposed humanish fossils are presented given the normal differences between people. They don't even bother to give measurements, how tall a person the skeletaon would have represented.

It is not the size that matters, it is the shape of the various bones. Shape differences are often determined by measurements and multivariate statistics. I did some of that in grad school--I was able to find similarities and differences among groups while including both males and females in my sample! That shows that size and sex-related differences can be factored out in favor of other morphological differences.

And you really should stop opining on osteology and paleontology as it is very clear you don't have a clue. Why continue to make yourself look foolish, and make your cause look weak and incompetent?

Edit to add: I have probably analyzed upwards of a thousand skeletons, and regularly help the local County Coroners on bone cases.

Edited by Coyote, : Addition


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 12:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 12:36 AM Coyote has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 31603
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 45 of 85 (768360)
09-11-2015 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Coyote
09-11-2015 12:33 AM


Re: incredible creationists
Whole arrays of skulls are often presented as if to prove differences between some ancient type of human and today's, but they all just look like normal variations on skulls you see walking down the street every day.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Coyote, posted 09-11-2015 12:33 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Coyote, posted 09-11-2015 12:40 AM Faith has responded
 Message 50 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-11-2015 12:50 AM Faith has responded
 Message 54 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-11-2015 12:59 AM Faith has responded
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-11-2015 1:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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