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Author Topic:   How long does it take to evolve?
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 21 of 221 (769764)
09-24-2015 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Lamden
09-24-2015 3:17 PM


speaking as a Christian...
Lamden writes:
I am interested in honest dialogue. If this site is reserved for people that have already come to the conclusion that evolution is fact, I guess I don't belong here.
Welcome home. Pull up a stump and set a spell.
Unfortunately for Creationists, evolution really is a fact. That much has been settled for over a century. It's not really a subject that is debatable but rather reality.
You can reasonably ask questions about how stuff happened but all honest debate about whether or not evolution happened ended over a century ago. Those who tell you the subject is still a question, that there are two reasonable positions, Evolutionist or Creationist, are simply lying to you.
Your initial question had a few serious flaws, the first and biggest was the idea that evolution would get to "human" as though "human" was some goal. It's not.
Humans are not more evolved than snails; humans are only special because we happen to be humans.
Humans were never a goal. Evolution has no goal, and once past the very first living things, not even a direction. When the only living things were single cell critters then the only possible direction was towards more complex critters. But once there were critters that were more than just one cell evolving into a new single cell or into an even more complex critter would be equally valid.
There really aren't two sides to the coin anymore. There is only evolution.
As an extremely devout Christian, raised in a Christian family, educated in Christian schools (that taught evolution by the way), I wish there was some possible way that the Creationist propaganda might just possibly have some basis in reality; but that is just not the case.
Look at the history in the US of the attempts to get Creationism or "Creation Science" (an oxymoron) taught in public schools and in EVERY case you will find Christian churches speaking out in opposition to Creationism or "Creation Science".
This is not too new. Since Creationism reared it's head again in the US those of us who are Christians and do see what is going on have been working to hopefully finally get the nonsense that is Creationism exposed for the Carny Side Show it is in reality.
Back in the 1980s when there was an attempt to get Creationism adopted as an alternative "theory" (and there is no such thing as a Theory of Creation) in Georgia, Bishop Sims of Atlanta issued a Pastoral letter (something which is then read to the congregations of every parish in the Diocese) on the subject that began:
quote:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Legislation is pending before the Georgia State Legislature which calls for the public financing and teaching of Scientific Creationism as a counter-understanding to Evolution, wherever the evolutionary view is taught in the public schools.
Scientific Creationism understands the cosmos and the world to have originated as the Bible describes the process in the opening chapters of Genesis.
The 74th Annual Council of the Diocese of Atlanta, in formal action on January 31, 1981, acted without a dissenting vote to oppose by resolution any action by the Georgia Legislature to impose the teaching of Scientific Creationism on the public school system. A copy of the resolution is attached to this Pastoral.
Full Text of his Pastoral Letter
We are now over a quarter century past those days. Since then we have learned much and EVERY single new development, every single new discovery, every single new technology, every single new technique has support the Theory of Evolution as well as the Fact that evolution did happen.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Lamden, posted 09-24-2015 3:17 PM Lamden has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 40 of 221 (769852)
09-25-2015 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Lamden
09-25-2015 2:06 PM


The Fact of Evolution and the Theory of Evolution
Science says absolutely nothing about whether or not there are gods or a Creator. Both of those things are beyond any possible test anyone can or has imagined.
But all of the evidence shows that evolution is a fact; that at one time there was no life on the Earth and that overtime there was a succession of changing lifeforms.
The next question is whether or not there could be some explanation for what is seen.
One possibility is Continuous Successive Creation where some god or gods create lifeforms then kills off those lifeforms and create newer lifeforms. But that really tells us nothing. It does not explain the changes seen or why there was a succession of lifeforms or what causes changes or how things change.
Then came the Theory of Evolution and the Descent of Man and for the first time there was a testable explanation. More and more fossils were found and the technology and techniques of gathering data was improved and gradually the Theory was revised based on additional information.
One of the biggest milestones was when we began gathering data about the environment that existed when the creatures that later became fossils were still alive instead of just looking at bones on the lab table or in the museum.
Later genetics provided the model and methods to explain change. That is all very recent though, even Mendel's work was only 150 years ago and it lay unnoticed for about a half century. The real understanding of genetics though is even more recent with the vast majority of our knowledge only coming in the last quarter century or so.
Granted, all of the evidence so far seems to indicate that no divine intervention is needed to explain the life seen here on Earth but that is a far cry from saying there is no god, no creator.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Lamden, posted 09-25-2015 2:06 PM Lamden has not replied

  
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