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Author Topic:   Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 4 of 372 (771137)
10-21-2015 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
10-19-2015 4:35 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Is Canada becoming intolerant and fed up with religions or is there some other reason for Canadian hard line against the hijab, niqab and burka?
Canadians are not against the hijab, niqab and burka. We just booted out the government that was - and good riddance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 10-19-2015 4:35 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:38 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 9 of 372 (771143)
10-21-2015 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 12:38 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Let us hope that no fire ever finds a Canadian mosque or school with female children in it.
That probably will happen. It only takes one lunatic to start a fire. That doesn't justify in any way your claim that the majority of Canadians feel that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:38 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:54 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 15 of 372 (771151)
10-21-2015 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 12:54 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Strange that you call the fire starter a lunatic yet say nothing of the officials who prevented the girls from exiting the burning building because they were not wearing their slave apparel.
I didn't say anything about Santa Claus either, or any other fictional entity. We're talking about Canada. Why do you make up such nonsense?
Greatest I am writes:
You speak of the perpetrator and not the victims.
If those "officials" existed, they would be perpetrators too. That would be a very small number of people, not the majority of Canadians as you claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 12:54 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 1:09 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 17 of 372 (771154)
10-21-2015 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 1:09 PM


Greatest I am writes:
If they existed?
Did you follow that link? Do you think it fiction?
If you have a point, make it. I never follow your links. I'm at a library computer and I can't watch videos.
Are you saying that somebody set fire to a Muslim school in Canada and that the school officials didn't let the girls out without their hijabs? I must have missed the news that day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 1:09 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 4:22 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 38 of 372 (771208)
10-22-2015 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 4:22 PM


Greatest I am writes:
It was information from Saudi Arabia.
You're all over the map. In Message 8, you talked about fires in Canadian mosques or schools. In the OP, you talked about a Canadian "hard line against the hijab, niqab and burka". I'm saying there is no "large majority in Canada" who would outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka. Do you have any evidence that there is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 4:22 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:32 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 39 of 372 (771209)
10-22-2015 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Greatest I am
10-21-2015 8:30 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Muslin men need a wake up call and banning their oppression of their women in how they dress, to me, is a good place to start.
If you impose a dress code on Muslim women, you're not just aiming at oppressive men. You're also denying women the right to wear the hijab, niqab or burka if they want to.
There are all sorts of social pressures on people of all genders and/or cultures. Many people pressure their children to go to college. Are you going to ban colleges to prevent that "oppression"?
If somebody says they want to go to college or wear a hijab/niqab/burka, I'm inclined to take their word for it instead of accepting your claim that they're being oppressed.
(By the way, I don't think I've ever seen a burka in person but I see a niqab once in a while and I see hijabs every day. I see hijabs on women wearing anything from floor-length dresses to jeans. They don't all seem to be that "oppressed".)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Greatest I am, posted 10-21-2015 8:30 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by NoNukes, posted 10-22-2015 12:24 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 45 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:36 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 55 of 372 (771274)
10-23-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:32 PM


Geatest I am writes:
I said ---
"Let us hope that no fire ever finds a Canadian mosque or school with female children in it."
By all means. Let us also hope that Froot Loops rain down from the sky like manna.
But the post that you were (supposedly) responding to asked you to back up your claim that there is a "large majority in Canada" who would outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka. Are you ever going to do that? Are you going to show us the Canadian "hard line against the hijab, niqab and burka"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:32 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:15 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 56 of 372 (771275)
10-23-2015 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:36 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Ask them.
Most will say they are forced by either their husbands or peer groups.
And what about the few who are NOT forced? You want to force your will on them.
We've been through this before in another thread: Prohibition doesn't change behaviour; it just drives the behaviour underground. If you force women to go bareheaded in public, their husbands can still oppress them in private.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:36 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:18 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 57 of 372 (771276)
10-23-2015 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:06 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Greatest I am writes:
Free people do not tolerate slavery in their land.
And they don't end slavery by banning chains.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:06 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Porosity, posted 10-23-2015 12:35 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 59 of 372 (771280)
10-23-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Porosity
10-23-2015 12:35 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Porosity writes:
..Would ringo wear a burka or a beard?
If I wore a burka, you wouldn't know.
(I'll tell the story again: My avatar used to be Lee Van Cleef from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. One of our members suggested that we should all try to understand what it's like to be gay by going through Valentine's Day without mentioning the gender of our partner. With my characteristic inability to follow instructions, I decided to become gender-ambiguous instead and I adopted Sharon Stone from The Quick and the Dead as my avatar. Later on, I switched to Sean Connery from The Hunt for Red October because that's more like what I really look like. But people seem to prefer Sharon Stone, so I switched back.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Porosity, posted 10-23-2015 12:35 PM Porosity has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by NoNukes, posted 10-23-2015 2:46 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 72 of 372 (771477)
10-26-2015 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Greatest I am
10-26-2015 8:15 AM


Greatest I am writes:
Yes. I will show the hardest line I can against the oppression of women and the signs of slavery I see in Canada.
Are you being deliberately evasive? I asked you to show that there is a large majority in Canada that would outlaw the hijab, as you claimed in the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:15 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 10-27-2015 8:51 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 73 of 372 (771478)
10-26-2015 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Greatest I am
10-26-2015 8:18 AM


Greatest I am writes:
I cannot do much for private abuses but can certainly do something to change the attitudes of Muslim men in public.
What does that accomplish? Forcing Muslim men to make a pretense of equality in public is likely to make some of them more oppressive in private, not less.
Greatest I am writes:
"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." — Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)
But you're saying that "they" SHOULD be coming for the Muslims. YOU are the one who's advocating suppression of a minority by outlawing their cultural practices.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:18 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Greatest I am, posted 10-27-2015 8:55 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 81 of 372 (771577)
10-27-2015 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Greatest I am
10-27-2015 8:51 AM


I think the election is a more credible poll than yours.
Also interesting in your link:
quote:
But one woman who chose to wear a niqab, after becoming a Canadian citizen, said it’s not fair to tell a new citizen not to be herself when she’s taking her oath.
This is one ceremony when a woman should be comfortable in her own skin and she should be able to wear whatever they want to, said Shomyla Hammad, a mother of two from Pakistan who moved to Canada in 2002.
She only began wearing a niqab eight years ago (she wore a hijab at her citizenship ceremony).
It was a part of a spiritual journey, she told Global News at her home in Mississauga. No one else in her family wears the covering and her husband was initially opposed to it, something she says is contrary to what people commonly believe about women who wear a niqab.
I want every Canadian to know that [this] was the decision I [made] because I was in Canada. Anywhere else in the world, I wouldn’t be able to [make] this decision, Hammad said. Canada empowered me. Canada taught me how to be yourself and do whatever you want to do.
Does she sound oppressed to you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 10-27-2015 8:51 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Greatest I am, posted 10-28-2015 9:01 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 82 of 372 (771579)
10-27-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Greatest I am
10-27-2015 8:55 AM


Greatest I am writes:
What is more important to you?
Protecting the culture of female oppression and ownership by men or the Canadian culture of freedom for women from ownership of men?
You're the one who wants to deny women the right to make their own choice.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Greatest I am, posted 10-27-2015 8:55 AM Greatest I am has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 94 of 372 (771661)
10-28-2015 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Greatest I am
10-28-2015 9:01 AM


Greatest I am writes:
You forget that Islam's agenda is always to try to have Sharia as the law of the land.
I didn't forget that. It isn't true. Only a minority of Muslims even support Sharia . The woman I quoted is an example of one who doesn't.
Greatest I am writes:
If they do not want to live by our hard earned standards then they can stay the hell away.
One of those hard-earned standards is welcoming people with diverse backgrounds and ideas.
Greatest I am writes:
Do you like homophobes and misogyny?
Do you like Islamophobes?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Greatest I am, posted 10-28-2015 9:01 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Greatest I am, posted 10-28-2015 12:32 PM ringo has replied

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