Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 210 of 372 (773707)
12-07-2015 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Greatest I am
12-07-2015 8:44 PM


Re: Not in MY Courtroom!
Testimonials are evidence where I come from...the testimony of one woman has as much value as the testimony of one man in my country.
How about this testimonial from a headscarf wearing woman:
quote:
I'm a Muslim....I'm separated. I'm living with three boys.
Her husband can't be forcing her...so....?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Greatest I am, posted 12-07-2015 8:44 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Greatest I am, posted 12-08-2015 4:10 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 241 of 372 (773860)
12-10-2015 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Greatest I am
12-08-2015 4:10 PM


Re: Not in MY Courtroom!
Quite possibly not but her culture and peers are likely doing so.
You are also constrained in what clothes you wear because of your culture and peers. It is why you rarely wear silk kimonos, bustle dresses or powdered wigs.
Do you feel oppressed? Would you like it if Muslim women were forcing you to wear a skirt? For the sake of freedom.
{note: presumptions of time period and gender were made during this post}
Every story will be different but our duty is to extend the freedoms we have earned to all within our borders and we will get the best bang for the buck by outlawing the signs of slavery that the garb in question represents.
One does not maximise freedom by adding restraints. What should we also outlaw? The mantilla? The apostolnik? The mitre? The yamulkah?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Greatest I am, posted 12-08-2015 4:10 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Dogmafood, posted 12-10-2015 7:54 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied
 Message 246 by Greatest I am, posted 12-10-2015 9:40 AM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 251 of 372 (773893)
12-10-2015 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Greatest I am
12-10-2015 9:40 AM


Re: Not in MY Courtroom!
If I hade to wear a skirt to insure the freedom of all in my country, I wold be pleased to show my bony knees.
How does not wearing a hijab ensure my freedom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Greatest I am, posted 12-10-2015 9:40 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Greatest I am, posted 12-10-2015 1:20 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 256 of 372 (773901)
12-10-2015 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Greatest I am
12-10-2015 1:20 PM


free to wear what I wanna wear
It does not but if we ignore all signs of oppression then who will be left to save our sorry asses when oppressors come for us who say we are free but will not do what is required to insure that all share the freedom we say we have?
The hijab is not a sign of oppression any more than the mantilla, apostolnik, mitre or yamulkah I mentioned earlier.
That is you first duty as a free person. Do it.
My duty includes fighting for others to be free. Even if it means wearing yellow and green stripey socks, brown sandals and a pink skirt. Or a hijab.
I fight people who seek to restrict freedom, such as yourself, with puritanical views on what free people are allowed to voluntarily wear.
quote:
First they came for the terrorists but I did nothing because I'm not a terrorist. Then they came for the extremists, but I did nothing because I'm not an extremist. Then they came for the moderates, but I did nothing because I'm not a moderate. Finally, they came for the single mothers, but by then everybody was hysterical and thought it wasn't enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Greatest I am, posted 12-10-2015 1:20 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Greatest I am, posted 12-10-2015 3:07 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 260 of 372 (773933)
12-11-2015 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Greatest I am
12-10-2015 3:07 PM


Re: free to wear what I wanna wear
Voluntary is the key word.
Yes it is. And you want to restrict voluntary action, which is the opposite of freedom.
We are all subject to governments, not to misogynous Muslim men.
This thought doesn't seem connected to anything.
You have given nothing to help forced women.
Nor have you. All you have done is make suggestions for forcing free women and forcing forced women into choosing between their government and their religion and their marriage.
Quite easy to say what you do not like what I propose but quite harder to suggest what might free those who are oppressed.
Well, yes if we are talking about reasonable and intelligent suggestions to free the oppressed - that is a bigger challenge that defeating your naive argument.
My first suggestion is that we don't do what you suggest as it is as oppressive as banning the yarmulkah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Greatest I am, posted 12-10-2015 3:07 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Greatest I am, posted 12-11-2015 12:57 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 270 of 372 (773964)
12-11-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Greatest I am
12-11-2015 12:57 PM


Re: free to wear what I wanna wear
Every law we have are designed to restrict voluntary actions are they not?
Yes.
"Everything which is not forbidden is allowed"
It makes it no less true that you want to restrict voluntary actions. This infringes on our freedom. There should be a compelling reason to restrict a freedom, something you have not provided.
Some homosexuals are nasty partners is not a reason to to ban homosexuality.
Some husbands dominate their wives is not a reason to outlaw certain items of clothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Greatest I am, posted 12-11-2015 12:57 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Greatest I am, posted 12-11-2015 2:25 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024