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Author Topic:   Should Canada and the U.S. tolerate an intolerant Islam?
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 106 of 127 (773135)
11-25-2015 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by New Cat's Eye
11-24-2015 10:28 PM


This thread also isn't just about terrorism.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-24-2015 10:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-25-2015 10:38 AM Jon has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 107 of 127 (773140)
11-25-2015 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Jon
11-25-2015 7:44 AM


So, that doesn't mean you cannot answer the question.

It's as if we had a thread about the alphabet and you refused to answer a question about the letter Q, because the thread isn't just about Q


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Jon, posted 11-25-2015 7:44 AM Jon has replied

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Percy
Member
Posts: 20755
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 108 of 127 (773149)
11-25-2015 12:42 PM


Origins of Jihadist-Inspired Attacks in the U.S.
In today's New York Times: Origins of Jihadist-Inspired Attacks in the U.S. From the front page intro:

quote:
Since Sept. 11, 2001, most of the attackers in the United States who were motivated by extremist Islam were U.S.-born or naturalized citizens. None were refugees.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Omnivorous, posted 11-25-2015 1:15 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 109 of 127 (773151)
11-25-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Percy
11-25-2015 12:42 PM


Re: Origins of Jihadist-Inspired Attacks in the U.S.
We're all more likely to be shot up in a school, theater or work-place by a white American male than we are to be victims of Muslim terror...or in our homes, because the kids got into the guns.

Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Percy, posted 11-25-2015 12:42 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 127 (773153)
11-25-2015 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by New Cat's Eye
11-25-2015 10:38 AM


I am not going to answer a loaded question that is artificially narrow in its scope.

I will address the broader issue, though, by telling you that my concern is with permitting folk into the West through any avenue of entry who are likely to spread intolerance, which would include acts of terrorism but is by no means limited to acts of terrorism.


Love your enemies!

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 111 of 127 (773155)
11-25-2015 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by New Cat's Eye
11-24-2015 9:29 PM


Re: Benefits of Islam
Cat Sci writes:

Anyways, if I got you right: our survival is doomed because limited resources make our growth unsustainable and sociopolitical evolution beyond the nation state is necessary to survive that. ?

Maybe I'm too naively futuristic, but couldn't looking away from the planet and towards space be a viable alternative to making us all get along? (collectively)

I'm not saying your idea sucks, I'm just not convinced it is necessary. Perhaps we should find a new topic for that, and just high-five for both welcoming Syrian refugees. Or not, w/e.

(Upon re-reading my characterization, it seemed cheesier than I intended. I get why you thought I was being disingenuously pedantic with the later questions. I try to avoid too many rhetorical questions so as to not dilute the sincerity of the real ones. So if I'm asking you, in particular, then I prolly mean it.)

Thanks, especially for the tone of your reply. I'm in the middle of a med adjustment (endocrine, not psych), and I think my irritability has shown here for a few days...(months....years...). Apologies to all; individual apologies are available upon application (shouts out to Coyote and AZPaul3...).

So, first, yeah: high five on the Syrian refugees. The practical arguments for immigration are the best--powerful, with wide commonality of interests--but the ideological ones against are so offensive to me that I usually blow right past the pragmatic.

Not so much doomed by limited resources vs. exponential growth, serious as that is, but rather existentially threatened because nationalism is preventing global solutions to global problems: that is an existential threat, esp. in the context of resources vs. growth.

I don't know if we can get sustainable colonies off-planet before the disaffected pull us down with their cold dying hands Maybe. I think it will be close; I agree with Hawking that it is imperative, and in the meantime we should STFU.

On the other hand, I'm old, and like the hard drinking and smoking Leonard Bernstein said when he reached 70, "I beat the rap!" Like many old-timers, I sometimes find myself watching younger folks stubbing their toes with grim satisfaction; I fight it.

Family here--more later.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 127 (773167)
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


So... 'Bout Them Benefits
I love how people continue to reply under the "Benefits of Islam" heading but that no one has made any honest attempt at discussing the benefits, if there are any, of Islam.

Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?


Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
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 Message 115 by anglagard, posted 11-26-2015 2:45 AM Jon has taken no action
 Message 116 by Percy, posted 11-26-2015 8:08 AM Jon has replied
 Message 117 by Stile, posted 11-26-2015 9:33 AM Jon has taken no action
 Message 118 by Dogmafood, posted 11-26-2015 9:35 AM Jon has taken no action
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2209
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 113 of 127 (773172)
11-25-2015 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jon
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?

Sure, it's the one true religion.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6637
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 114 of 127 (773175)
11-25-2015 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Omnivorous
11-25-2015 2:05 PM


Re: Benefits of Islam
Apologies to all; individual apologies are available upon application (shouts out to Coyote and AZPaul3...).

???

I'm sure if you have gotten crosswise with me I more than deserved it. No apologies requested or necessary.

Like many old-timers, I sometimes find myself watching younger folks stubbing their toes with grim satisfaction...

So it's not the med adjustment after all. You're just crotchety.


This message is a reply to:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 72 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 115 of 127 (773178)
11-26-2015 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jon
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Jon writes:

Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?

I must say I have benefited from Muslim hospitality. If you are a guest or even a stranger entering the domicile, most in my experience will bend over backwards to make you comfortable. Just be respectful and take off your shoes if requested, not unlike some other cultures.

Also, a Muslim C.S. major from India introduced me to the WWW and taught me the basics of coding in HTML back in 1994, so there is always that little counter to any accusation of not benefiting from an adherent of Islam, or for that matter any "dark ages" rhetoric concerning at least some Muslims.

However directly or indirectly Islam influenced their kindness toward me, it directly benefited me, so that is my answer to your question.

I feel it is no different from a professed Christian, Jew, Atheist or Pagan whatever being kind. If they feel it comes from their religion, I'm fine with that.

The world needs more wisdom and kindness, not more hate and fear.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

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Percy
Member
Posts: 20755
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 116 of 127 (773187)
11-26-2015 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jon
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Jon writes:

Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?

Can't that same question be asked of any religion? I imagine the answer is the same for Islam as it is for many other religions: it brings people closer to God.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Jon, posted 11-25-2015 4:09 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Jon, posted 11-26-2015 10:00 AM Percy has seen this message

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4065
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 117 of 127 (773191)
11-26-2015 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jon
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Jon writes:

Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?

Sorry, I didn't think you meant this question seriously.

The benefits of Islam are: Happiness, peace, love, growth, friendship, and strength, to name a few.

Really, the benefits are the same as any other mainstream religion or even atheism.


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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 329 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(2)
Message 118 of 127 (773192)
11-26-2015 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jon
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?

Supposedly, it makes it easier to identify the terrorists.


This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 119 of 127 (773193)
11-26-2015 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Percy
11-26-2015 8:08 AM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Jon writes:

Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?

Can't that same question be asked of any religion?

Can and should be.

Along with the question of 'what are the costs?' it's part of determining whether we tolerate such things or not.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Percy, posted 11-26-2015 8:08 AM Percy has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19524
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 120 of 127 (773196)
11-26-2015 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jon
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Jon writes:

Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?


A young lady in a niqab smiled at me once. It was subtle, like prairie scenery, but well worth noticing.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 122 by Greatest I am, posted 12-02-2015 2:02 PM ringo has replied

  
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