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Author | Topic: Is the future inevitable? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Larni Member Posts: 3999 From: Liverpool Joined: |
In a deterministic universe yes. Otherwise no.
The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
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Dogmafood Member Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
What I cannot fathom is how any event can happen without a preceding event.
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Larni Member Posts: 3999 From: Liverpool Joined:
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I guess that before causality was invented lots of things just 'happened'.
The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5727 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Yes, events do have preceding events. No one is saying otherwise. But, in a probabilistic universe, if you wind the clock back far enough from that event and start over the play out of the probabilities on the second run may not produce the same event from the first run. Whatever different event does happen on the second run will, of course, have had a different set of preceding events.
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PaulK Member Posts: 16766 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
I think that the point of chaos is that it magnifies the effects of random events. Small chance fluctuations in a non-chaotic universe would take much longer to have a significant effect.
It would also magnify the effects of very small differences, so an apparently but not exactly identical universe would also tend to diverge from ours.
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Dogmafood Member Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Clockworks always play out the same way and so we can predict the position of the clock at some future time with precision. We use probabilities to predict outcomes for events that we do not have all of the variables for like nuclear decay. quote: I guess my question is how do you prove that no hidden variables exist?
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Percy Member Posts: 19996 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
I would think that quantum effects would cause the states of two universes that began in identical states to diverge. At the quantum level particles will flit in and out of existence, but not identically in the two universes. Eventually and inevitably these quantum differences will manifest themselves at the macro observable level.
--Percy
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caffeine Member Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Not necessarily. It's possible to make certain small changes to a chaotic system without altering the outcome at all. A slightly different small change, however, could have dramatic effects, but it is theoretically possible to have two slightly different universes which are indistinguishable (once again, I'm ignoring quantumness (quantumity?)). Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
This question has come up before and we got some answers back when cavediver and Son Goku used to post here regularly. Here is a partial answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5727 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Are you sure about that? QM and GR might disagree.
Hidden variables has been a contentious point with QM since Einstein and the EPR paradox. But, the worm has turned, as they say, and the present consensus is hidden variables do not exist. The Bell Inequities, Alain Aspect's and Nicolas Gisin's experiments show that hidden variables has some fatal flaws that preclude their reality. One does not prove that hidden variables do not or cannot exist. One can only show the preponderance of the evidence is against such things. IMO one of the best, comprehensive and lay-friendly write ups on whole controversy is here
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Dogmafood Member Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Yes I know. In my defense, the answers are described as counter-intuitive even by those who provide them. Causality seems so necessary. An object at rest will remain at rest. I find it easier to accept the idea that distance is an illusion as opposed to the idea that things happen without cause.
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Phat Member Posts: 15105 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Please help me.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain
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Tangle Member Posts: 8089 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
You know the seeds of sychamore trees have little wings on them? They allow the tree to spread its seeds a distance from the mother tree. They get dispersed by the wind sometimes for hundreds of yards. Some of them land in roof gutters, car parks and roads, some get eaten by squirrels, some of them drown in lakes. Some of them get carried down river miles away from the tree. Do you believe that where each individual seed lands has been preditermined? Or do you think it more likely that that can not be true given the enormous number of variables involved - almost all of which are random and/or chaotic. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 15105 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
only if any one variable is no more or less influential than any other variable.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain
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Tangle Member Posts: 8089 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
Eh? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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