Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8925 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-19-2019 4:35 PM
38 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 860,030 Year: 15,066/19,786 Month: 1,789/3,058 Week: 163/404 Day: 50/113 Hour: 4/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
2Next
Author Topic:   Jesus and his sacrifice is Satan’s test of man’s morality.
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 119 of 478 (775315)
12-31-2015 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by GDR
12-31-2015 2:35 AM


If i am off topic sorry, but remember Leviticus 26, beginning with verse 40, is the confession Israel would be called upon to make. Israel would also have to accept the remainder of her punishment, that failure under the contract would call for and that would be the seven year tribulation. When John the Baptizer came along, had anything new begun? He simply called upon Israel to change their minds about their righteousness. 


John the Baptizer came in connection with Yahweh’s earthly nation Israel and in accordance with an offer to confess their failure under the contract in order to gain their promised land. That confession itself would be considered a fruit of righteousness in the eyes of Yahweh. The focus during John the Baptizer’s ministry was still Israel and the issue continued to be the land. Nothing had changed except that Israel was being offered the opportunity to confess their failure under the contract. Israel continued to be the focus and the land continued to be the issue.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by GDR, posted 12-31-2015 2:35 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by GDR, posted 01-01-2016 2:34 PM Bob Bobber has responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 121 of 478 (775319)
12-31-2015 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by GDR
12-31-2015 2:35 AM


Just a thought? We see the “prayer of faith” Israel walked by sight, Yahweh allowed their prayer life to work in connection with sight as that earthly kingdom was on their doorstep. Yahweh worked in connection with the sign nation, the healings that were performed and the power resident in the prayer of faith. When the kingdom program was ongoing and Jesus was ready to rule and reign right here on earth, a troubled believer could pray the prayer of faith, when presented with suffering circumstances and those circumstance would disappear. Yahweh provided that prayer of faith, because that kingdom was at hand and the time for troubling circumstances had come to an end. It was time to put an end to pain and suffering, because it was time for the King to rule and reign on this earth. 


Where the Mosaic covenant was contracted between Yahweh and the nation, the Davidic covenant is contracted between Yahweh and a single individual, the king. The Davidic covenant is an eternal and unconditional covenant between Yahweh and the House of David, or the dynasty of David. Yahweh says that David and his descendants may be punished for sin. They certainly will be punished for sin, but Yahweh will not take the kingdom away from them as he did from Saul. Yahweh’s unconditional and eternal covenants with the patriarchs and with David do not prelude the possibility of punishment or chastisement for sin as specified in the conditional Mosaic covenant. 


The covenant with David, it’s a covenant of grant, it’s a grant of a reward for loyal service and deeds. Yahweh rewards David with the gift of an unending dynasty, in exchange for his loyalty. Yahweh’s oath to preserve the Davidic dynasty, would lead eventually to a popular belief in the invincibility of the Holy City. The belief in Israel’s ultimate deliverance from enemies, became bound up with David and his dynasty. When the kingdom fell finally to the Babylonians, the promise to David’s House was believed to be eternal. The community looked to the future for a restoration of the Davidic line or Davidic king or messiah. 


The messiah simply means anointed, one who is “meshiach” is anointed with the holy oil, That is a reference to the fact that the king was initiated into office by means of holy oil being poured on his head. So King David was the messiah of Yahweh, the king anointed by or to Yahweh. And in the exile, Israelites would pray for another messiah, meaning another king from the House of David appointed and anointed by Yahweh to rescue them from enemies, and reestablish them as a nation at peace in their land as David had done. The Israelites hope for a messiah; it involved the restoration of the nation in its land under a Davidic king. 


The 12 apostles preached the reality of the resurrection of Jesus ‘the messiah’. The 12 apostles had preached the necessity of Jesus ‘the messiah’ being raised from among the dead, in order to sit on the throne of David in the promised kingdom.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by GDR, posted 12-31-2015 2:35 AM GDR has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 3:54 AM Bob Bobber has responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 122 of 478 (775320)
12-31-2015 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Bob Bobber
12-31-2015 3:48 AM


Just some thoughts about the different kinds of prayers of the Israelite?Before that kingdom could be realized, there was a prophetic event that had to take place first. The way Jesus taught has special application to that tribulation period to those people who were being taught to pray in this manner. This will be a very heartfelt prayer during the tribulation period. During the time of Jacob’s trouble, the Israelites will be under tremendous persecution from the antichrist. He will be putting Israelites to death for their faith. The Israelites will be praying at that time, “thy kingdom come” the promised earthly kingdom to be set up right here on earth, because the only hope of deliverance for the believing Israelites at that time, will be the coming of the king and setting up of the earthly kingdom. 


“Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” is a divine definition of the millennium. The kingdom is when the will of Yahweh is carried out in the earth to the same degree it is carried out in heaven. The Israelites have an earthly hope, they were promised the earth forever. At the time when Israel will be facing the wrath of Satan - the time that Israel was being prepared for when they were being taught how to pray - Satan will have been kicked out of the heaven and cast down to the earth and Yahweh’s will, will indeed be being done in the realm where Satan has just been cast out. 


This prayer is appropriate for the Israelites of that day, they will be praying at that time just as the disciples had been taught to pray. It is recited in churches across the country in our day. It is recited as though it is a prayer for today. While we are not to use vain repetition, it is recited like vain repetition as people stand up and uttering together. At the time this prayer was being taught to pray “our Father” meant that you recognized, if you were an Israelite, that you had a covenant relationship with Yahweh; you were his children. 


These saints of the earthly kingdom program will be praying in the day “Give us this day our daily bread.” They will be worrying about that day, not the next day as that earthly kingdom becomes a reality for those Israelites. “Debtors” Israel’s status as a nation above all nations depended on this very thing. The believers of Israel will be seeking forgiveness in respect to their willingness to forgive. Yahweh will not restore that nation to a place of national prominence above all nations of the earth until they adhere to the exhortation, forgive us our sins as WE (corporately) are willing to forgive those who have sinned against us. 


There will be a people for Yahweh on the earth during those eventful years, and Yahweh indeed has provided for their instruction, and warning, and encouragement, in the second and third chapters of the Book of Revelation. Right at the beginning, they are the first subjects of Divine remembrance, provision, and care. Their needs must be first provided for, before anything else is recorded of the things which John saw; and there they will find what is specially written for their learning. But those readers will be at once be reminded of the various stages of their own past history, and they will find in almost every sentence some allusion to the circumstances in which they will find themselves as described in these seven letters. 


They are written to the People supposed to be well-versed in the history of the Old Testament, and well-acquainted with all that had happened to their fathers and had been written for their admonition. Instructed in the past history of their nation, they will readily understand the relation between the testings and judgments in the past with which they are familiar, and those similar circumstances in which they will find themselves in a yet future day. As we read these letters, the references to the Old Testament in the seven letters correspond with the historical order of the events, so it is with respect to the promises contained in these letters. 


While the historical events connected with the rebukes are carried down from Exodus to the period of the Minor Prophets, the promises cover a different period; commencing with the period of Eden, and ending with the period of Solomon. The subjects of the rebukes follow the order of the departure of the People from Yahweh. Their decline and apostasy is traced out in the historical references contained in these letters. But when we turn to the promises, then all is different. 

Thy proceed in the opposite direction. The order, instead of descending from Israel’s highest ground of privilege (Exodus) to the lowest stage of destitution (Minor Prophets), the order ascends from tending a garden to sharing his throne. 


The seven promises are all intensely individual, there is no corporate existence recognized as such. “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil one. (AntiChrist)” The temptation spoken of here has to do with testing. Jesus had something particular in mind as he taught them how to be praying. The prayer of faith was a taste of the kingdom in time past.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 3:48 AM Bob Bobber has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 3:59 AM Bob Bobber has not yet responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 123 of 478 (775321)
12-31-2015 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Bob Bobber
12-31-2015 3:54 AM


Sorry, just one more thought? While the King was on the earth, he had the power on earth to forgive people their sins, which would include physical healing in connection with earthly kingdom prophecy. When it came to Israel’s promised earthly kingdom and the forgiveness of sins by the earthly King of that promised earthly kingdom, what was absolutely essential to that forgiveness being granted? It’s always been the issue of faith down through out history. Faith of course, without faith they would not be forgiven and without forgiveness there would not be any healing. What would faith do in that program, when faith was called upon to do a work to prove itself?


Why would forgiveness and the necessity of that forgiveness be an important thing for Israel to understand? The answer to that is because of another concept that had its beginning in the garden called guilt. That guilt-worthiness in the mind of people originated in the garden can be plainly seen. You see, the problem was not that the Gentiles before Israel had no sense of guilt-worthiness. The problem is, they had no fear of Yahweh given the guilt-worthiness of which they were instinctively aware. They had a conscience. Guilt can be a wonderful thing when dealt with according to a proper understanding, but it can be a horrible, most devastating thing when Yahweh’s solution for it is not fully understood and appreciated.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Bob Bobber, posted 12-31-2015 3:54 AM Bob Bobber has not yet responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 132 of 478 (775366)
12-31-2015 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Aussie
12-31-2015 2:54 PM


Re: misrepresentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mtLXpgjHL0&feature=related

When it comes to the flood, what if someone showed you how to add animal parts to this video? That is what Yahweh wiped out? We even have proof that that knowledge was revealed to the human race again?

Murder is a wrong way to look at this, because it was Yahweh’s land? If I came into your house and started doing things against your living standers, would you like that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Aussie, posted 12-31-2015 2:54 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Aussie, posted 01-01-2016 11:11 AM Bob Bobber has responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 136 of 478 (775409)
01-01-2016 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Aussie
01-01-2016 11:11 AM


Re: misrepresentation
What I meant was the progeny of the fallen angels during the flood. These fallen angels instructed people how to mix animal DNA with human DNA. These abnormal beings, their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Yahweh’s Word (Gen. 3:15)


There was a second irruption of these fallen angels, smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan “the nations of Canaan.” These abnormal beings is what Yahweh was getting rid of. But this second irruption took place on Yahweh’s land, the land he promised to Abraham.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Aussie, posted 01-01-2016 11:11 AM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by herebedragons, posted 01-01-2016 1:58 PM Bob Bobber has responded
 Message 195 by Aussie, posted 01-04-2016 8:57 AM Bob Bobber has not yet responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 141 of 478 (775418)
01-01-2016 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by herebedragons
01-01-2016 1:58 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Not nonsense, these abnormal beings were to be cut off, and driven out, and utterly destroyed (Deut. 20:17; Josh. 3:10) but Israel failed. We do not know how many got away to other countries to escape the general destruction. If this were recognized, it would go far to solve many problems connected with Anthropology?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by herebedragons, posted 01-01-2016 1:58 PM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by herebedragons, posted 01-01-2016 3:53 PM Bob Bobber has responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 143 of 478 (775422)
01-01-2016 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by GDR
01-01-2016 2:34 PM


The singling out of Israel? But what is interesting is the complete reversal of this ritual ceremony for that land. Only Yahweh is obligated by the covenant for the land grant? Here is something I wrote about this covenant. After Yahweh Gave up on the nations, Yahweh experiments with a single individual of believing; Abraham’s believing withstands many a trial.

Yahweh is the owner of the land, Abraham was called to. Yahweh is empowered to set conditions or residency requirements for those who would reside in it, like a landlord. Yahweh is seeking replacement tenants who are going to follow the moral rules of residence that Yahweh has established for his land. 
Yahweh’s promise to Abraham is formalized in a ritual ceremony called a suzerainty covenant. The patriarchical covenant, which is a covenant in which a superior party, a suzerain dictates the terms of a political treaty usually, and an inferior party obeys them.

The arrangement primarily serves the interest of the suzerain, and not the vassal or the subject. So Yahweh is making a land grant to a favored subject, and there’s an ancient ritual that ratifies the oath. In this kind of covenant, the parties to the oath would pass between the split carcass of a sacrificial animal, as if to say, that they agree they will suffer the same fate as this animal, if they violate the covenant. 


Abraham cuts sacrificial animals in two, and Yahweh, but only Yahweh, passes between the two halves. Only Yahweh seems to be obligated by the covenant, obligated to fulfill the promise that he’s made. Abraham doesn’t appear to have any obligation in return. In this case, it is the subject, Abraham, and not the suzerain, Yahweh, who is benefited by this covenant, and that’s a complete reversal of this ritual ceremony.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by GDR, posted 01-01-2016 2:34 PM GDR has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by herebedragons, posted 01-01-2016 3:59 PM Bob Bobber has not yet responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 156 of 478 (775443)
01-01-2016 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by herebedragons
01-01-2016 3:53 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Yahweh was being called a murder, I was trying to show that these abnormal beings had to be destroyed with that flood, or we would not be here right now? It is a cool research, start a thread, let's learn.

Edited by Bob Bobber, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by herebedragons, posted 01-01-2016 3:53 PM herebedragons has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by GDR, posted 01-01-2016 10:30 PM Bob Bobber has responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 162 of 478 (775450)
01-01-2016 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by GDR
01-01-2016 10:30 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Turn the other cheek, love your neighbor, cool sayings, but why was Jesus saying those things? You fail to take into account that when it came to Israel’s promised earthly kingdom and the forgiveness of sins by the earthly King of that promised earthly kingdom, what was absolutely essential to that forgiveness being granted? It’s always been the issue of faith down through out history. 


Faith of course, without faith they would not be forgiven and without forgiveness there would not be any healing. What would faith do in that program, when faith was called upon to do a work to prove itself? Do not forget that Jesus was preparing the Israelites for that 7 years they own the law contract? A so called Christian in this age of grace has nothing to do with any of this. Sure we can learn from this, because it is for our learning and understanding. If I did not turn the other cheek in this age of grace, did I break a standard? No. 


It kinda sounds like God is your buddy in the sky, my friend would never do anything evil. Yahweh has done nothing evil, Satan keeps attacking his creation? When it comes to these abnormal beings running around on God’s planet, he has promises he made and Satan will not win the war. Gen. 3:15, this story is written is the stars.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by GDR, posted 01-01-2016 10:30 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-02-2016 2:09 AM Bob Bobber has responded
 Message 169 by GDR, posted 01-02-2016 2:16 AM Bob Bobber has responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 163 of 478 (775451)
01-01-2016 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Faith
01-01-2016 10:44 PM


Re: misrepresentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKnF1HEUwuo

Understanding what the people are trying to accompilish behind what this video is talking about will help you understand a little about the Civil War.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Faith, posted 01-01-2016 10:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Admin, posted 01-02-2016 11:04 AM Bob Bobber has not yet responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 164 of 478 (775454)
01-02-2016 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by herebedragons
01-01-2016 1:58 PM


Re: misrepresentation
What would get me the loony award would be me explaining what was going on the earth, when it was in the first heaven? That is a trip how all that was sit up.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by herebedragons, posted 01-01-2016 1:58 PM herebedragons has not yet responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 166 of 478 (775457)
01-02-2016 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by kbertsche
01-02-2016 12:53 AM


Re: misrepresentation
Just a thought about that word 'word', that word 'word' should be 'wisdom'. When these four gospels are harmonized, here is where John comes into play in the overall context of the story being told. Remember Satan has his chance at tempting the second Adam, the first Adam failed. This wisdom is not logos.

Then Satan left Yeshua; and lo, angels came, and ministered to him. Wisdom was in the beginning, and that very wisdom was with Yahweh, and Yahweh was that wisdom. Wisdom was in the beginning with Yahweh. Everything came to be by Yahweh’s hand; and without Yahweh, not even one thing that was created came to be. The life is in Yahweh, that life is the light of men.


Wisdom was indeed in the beginning with Yahweh, Proverbs 8:22-26. Wisdom recounts her creation and her presence during the creation of the world. She was the very first of God’s creations. ‘Created me’ wisdom existed from eternity and was coeval with God. Some Christian groups identified wisdom with the Logos, which was in turn identified with The Christ. It is , however clear from v.23 that wisdom is a created being. Wisdom declares that she was present when God produced the inhabited world. This wisdom is a cool research.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by kbertsche, posted 01-02-2016 12:53 AM kbertsche has not yet responded

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 170 of 478 (775466)
01-02-2016 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Thugpreacha
01-02-2016 2:09 AM


I grew up in Cheyenne WY, just up the road from you. Spent over 30 trying to harmonize the four gospels, this writing needs work, but I forgot the password and cannot get back into it to work on it.

http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-02-2016 2:09 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
Bob Bobber
Member (Idle past 1162 days)
Posts: 187
Joined: 12-30-2015


Message 171 of 478 (775467)
01-02-2016 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Thugpreacha
01-02-2016 2:09 AM


Re: The Story Of How Bobber Came To Believe
Here are some interesting points, these mighty men, the men of renown. The explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology, that mythology was no mere invention of the human brain. But it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings, and was gradually evolved out of the ‘heroes’ of Gen. 6:4. There are huge building under water off the coast of Japan.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-02-2016 2:09 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-02-2016 7:35 AM Bob Bobber has not yet responded

    
1
2Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019