Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 49 (9181 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: joebialek123
Post Volume: Total: 918,278 Year: 5,535/9,624 Month: 560/323 Week: 57/143 Day: 19/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Jesus and his sacrifice is Satan’s test of man’s morality.
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 478 (774359)
12-16-2015 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
12-16-2015 12:16 PM


Faith writes:
"I lay down my life for the sheep."
In context, that refers to a shepherd risking his life for his sheep, not actually dying. A dead shepherd is no use to the sheep.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 12-16-2015 12:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 12-16-2015 4:13 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 478 (774401)
12-17-2015 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
12-16-2015 4:13 PM


Faith writes:
O come on; analogies and metaphors aren't meant to be stretched to fit reality exactly.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just pointing out that you're using the wrong metaphor. In the example you gave, Jesus was talking about risking His life - or in a broader sense, devoting His life - not actually dying. It refers back to the shepherd metaphor in the Old testament - e.g. Psalm 23 - which is about protection, not blood sacrifice.
Jesus also used the sacrificial lamb metaphor, which also refers back to the Old Testament. You just need to use the right metaphor for the right occasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 12-16-2015 4:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 12-17-2015 6:36 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 28 of 478 (774476)
12-18-2015 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
12-17-2015 6:36 PM


Faith writes:
I don't know what convoluted irrelevant point you are trying to make, since you don't provide quotes to show me what you mean by the context...
I meant the context of your quote, which I quoted you as quoting.
Faith writes:
... "lay down my life" means DIE, not "risk" dying.
Clearly not. If a shepherd dies, there is nobody to protect the sheep. A shepherd tries hard NOT to die for that reason (among others).
I'm not arguing against the idea of Jesus' blood sacrifice. I'm just pointing out that the metaphor you quoted doesn't apply to blood sacrifice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 12-17-2015 6:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 31 of 478 (774484)
12-18-2015 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
12-18-2015 11:27 AM


Faith writes:
Ringo is just insisting on holding to the original OT context for no useful reason.
I'm not insisting on anything. I'm pointing out how you could hone your argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 12-18-2015 11:27 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 12-18-2015 11:46 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 34 of 478 (774491)
12-18-2015 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
12-18-2015 11:46 AM


Faith writes:
Hone my argument? Against GIA who thinks Jesus was made a sacrifice against His will?
Which one of you is the parakeet and which is the image in the mirror?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 12-18-2015 11:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 12-18-2015 12:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 39 of 478 (774589)
12-19-2015 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
12-18-2015 12:44 PM


Faith writes:
Excuse me? You aren't making any sense.
I'm saying that you might as well be arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. GIA is correct that the theology is nonsense and you are correct that his interpretation of it is nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 12-18-2015 12:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 41 of 478 (774600)
12-19-2015 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by kbertsche
12-19-2015 1:26 PM


kbetsche writes:
... this payment is only credited to the sinner's account if he believes in Jesus.
You have to cash the cheque.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by kbertsche, posted 12-19-2015 1:26 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by kbertsche, posted 12-19-2015 4:35 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 104 of 478 (775245)
12-30-2015 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
12-30-2015 1:59 PM


Re: Foreknown and Determined
Phat writes:
We freely chose the wrong path.
If there is a "wrong" path, it isn't a free choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 12-30-2015 1:59 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-30-2015 2:32 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 106 of 478 (775249)
12-30-2015 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
12-30-2015 2:32 PM


Re: Foreknown and Determined
Phat writes:
Perhaps we humans are not yet wise enough to be given such power.
Perhaps God wasn't wise in forcing such power on us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 12-30-2015 2:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 200 of 478 (775713)
01-04-2016 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Phat
01-03-2016 7:58 AM


Re: Can't have it both ways
Phat writes:
Im not satan, after all.
Yes you are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Phat, posted 01-03-2016 7:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 01-04-2016 11:37 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 204 of 478 (775720)
01-04-2016 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Phat
01-04-2016 11:37 AM


Re: Can't have it both ways
Phat writes:
Whatever are you going to do with me?
Treat you like a human being, satanic qualities and all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 01-04-2016 11:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 245 of 478 (775818)
01-05-2016 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by kbertsche
01-05-2016 11:54 AM


Re: Can't have it both ways
kbertsche writes:
Perhaps "scripted", but not "dictated".
So God is the screenwriter of a movie with no director?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by kbertsche, posted 01-05-2016 11:54 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 273 of 478 (775971)
01-07-2016 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by kbertsche
01-06-2016 11:50 PM


Re: misrepresentation
kbertsche writes:
If you were Abraham, and God told you to sacrifice your only son on top of a mountain, would you obey God or would you refuse?
I find it disturbing that you would even ask that question.
If God told me to sacrifice my child, HELL NO, I would not obey. I would refuse with extreme prejudice. Any sane human being would do the same.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by kbertsche, posted 01-06-2016 11:50 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by kbertsche, posted 01-07-2016 12:17 PM ringo has replied
 Message 275 by GDR, posted 01-07-2016 12:18 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 276 of 478 (775985)
01-07-2016 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by kbertsche
01-07-2016 12:17 PM


Re: misrepresentation
kbertsche writes:
An unbeliever (like you two) will set himself as an authority above God, and will question and judge God at every step.
Isn't that what the Knowledge of Good and Evil is for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by kbertsche, posted 01-07-2016 12:17 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 312 of 478 (776078)
01-08-2016 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by Faith
01-07-2016 4:24 PM


Re: YYes Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
That's the definition of justice. An eye for an eye.
As I've pointed out before, you misunderstand the principle of an eye for an eye:
quote:
Exodus 21:23-25 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
It says thou shalt give an eye for an eye, not take an eye for an eye.
It goes on to clarify:
quote:
Exodus 21: 26-27 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
It's about compensation, not retribution.
And Jesus said:
quote:
Matthew 5: 38-41 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
So there is no basis in scripture for your claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Faith, posted 01-07-2016 4:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 11:51 AM ringo has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024