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Junior Member (Idle past 1560 days) Posts: 25 From: St.Petersburg, Russia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The great basic question of science on origin of life | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray, Vladimir Matveev,
Interesting article
I have previously thought of the cell membrane as a means to preserve an environment where the replicating molecules survive and thus make them more viable than the molecules alone. In the above scenario we could have evaporating ponds providing the concentrations, then the cell membranes to protect them, perhaps in a semi-dormant phase, and then the pump. Enjoy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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To contain the concentration when the pond is diluted (rains) and perhaps they get flushed out of the pond into a stream etc. So the proto-life is now capable of surviving drought with the membrane and flood with the pump. It is surviving to reproduce, it is evolving. I see "life" beginning when evolution begins - beneficial traits are passed down from generation to generation. See Definition of Life for discussion and Message 69 and Message 75 for more of my comments. Enjoy ps you can use the "peek" function to see how things are coded Edited by RAZD, : . by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
That was AZPaul3 in Message 9. The correct [reply] button is at the bottom of a post rather than at the top. Indeed, I like to think of it as a series of accidents, some happy some not so happy.
For the proto-life without a pump it has a problem maintaining it's optimum inner ecology, and osmosis would not help. Thus an "accident" that provided a pumping action would be beneficial, allowing it to survive and breed in the wider environment. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Indeed, so now we need to look at what the physical mechanism is and then see if we can hypothesis and test how it could develop. Enjoy ps -- visited your lovely city in the 70's and rode on one of the hydrofoil boats. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Well I was there on a tour so I'm sure we saw the best side of it. I did get a chance to get out and walk around for a bit, and see the parks and canals, as well as the tour high spots.
Well I do think that the modern cell is the product of billions of years of evolution, so it is a bit difficult to extrapolate back to the first working models. But we can attempt that by breaking it down into steps along the way. (1) self-replicating molecules arise, many varieties, and they interact and compete for materials, so there is selection of those best able to consistently reproduce their basic pattern. (2) a semi-permeable lipid membrane is developed - see Szostak Proto-Cell. (3) the semi-permeable membrane allows ions and other atoms or molecules to migrate and balance the inside with the outside environment via openings like ion channels, or what develops into ion channels. (4) the proto-cell develops the ability to close the ion channel\openings when the outside environment is not compatible with the inside "work environment" and go into a dormant stage or low energy state until the outside environment becomes compatible again. (5) an ion channel evolves into a ion pump -- see Ion channels versus ion pumps: the principal difference, in principle quote: Full paper available on-line free. There are also references to similar papers and papers that cite this paper. Seems like the similarities point to the pump evolving from the channel by the addition of a second gate. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : added at end by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Evolution happens, that is all we need to know.
No, it is a tautology begging the question -- as soon as biological evolution occurs we have biological conditions. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : sp by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Part of the issue here is when does 'life' begin (and built into that is the question of what is 'life'). To my mind 'life' begins when (biological) evolution begins, but that is still pretty muddy (how many processes of evolution are involved). But I don't thinks there are significantly differences between just prior to and just post this OOL (origin of life) event. And since that point 'life' has become more and more complex. There was a discussion about this definition issue on Definition of Life. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Well, I get the impression that he is concerned about something that he feels is being ignored by the specialists, and that he is looking for answers more than saying he has them. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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