Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 76 (9011 total)
68 online now:
coffee_addict, DrJones*, kjsimons, nwr (4 members, 64 visitors)
Newest Member: Burrawang
Upcoming Birthdays: Coragyps
Happy Birthday: DrJones*
Post Volume: Total: 881,652 Year: 13,400/23,288 Month: 330/795 Week: 31/95 Day: 12/19 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Did Jesus teach reincarnation?
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 126 of 230 (777582)
02-04-2016 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by ringo
01-25-2016 12:31 PM


Re: (Un) Conspicuous Appearances?
Skepticism is how you learn. There is no dishonor in being an honest skeptic.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by ringo, posted 01-25-2016 12:31 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by ringo, posted 02-04-2016 11:07 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 166 of 230 (791491)
09-16-2016 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by jaywill
01-29-2016 10:55 AM


Re: Lets get on with the issue of Romans 8
jaywill writes:

We could get into slinging around quotations from the early church "fathers". And we will see that often it depends on who you're quoting. And sometimes teachers were simultaneously charged with a bad teaching and the very opposite bad teaching.

I would rather refer to the Scriptures and what I know I have experienced.
God was never real to me before I received the Lord Jesus Christ into my innermost being. I could talk about God. I could philosophies about God. I could debate about God. And I could grope on what was meant by "God" anyway. But I could not call "Abba Father, my own dear Father. Papa ! Abba Father" to God because I simply did not KNOW God.

In the journey of God imparting Himself into us the Holy Spirit is the last stage. He reaches us in our human spirit as the Third of the Triune God. What the Trinity IS can never be separated from what the Trinity DOES. And what He does is dispense God into man. We have to receive Jesus Christ.

The Spirit of Jesus coming into my spirit made God subjectively real to me.
I am a part of that audience that Paul speaks to. And there the indwelling Christ is the indwelling Spirit of God.

This is an honest report in that you acknowledge the necessity of subjectivity. I believe God wanted it that way in order to give people the freedom to reject Him.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by jaywill, posted 01-29-2016 10:55 AM jaywill has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 188 of 230 (880672)
08-09-2020 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 6:54 AM


Some questions
There SHOULD be wide space in between the Heaven and the Lake of Fire, where a lot of unfaithful will go for eternal life.
Several questions.
1) Why SHOULD there be a wide space? Social distancing?

2) What are the unfaithful guilty of? In your mind, what is the final(or the first) straw that broke the camels back?

3)What is the point of increasing punishment? Is not banishment to outer darkness enough? What possible reason would God have to inflict differing degrees of punishment?

4)What is the difference between reincarnation and redemption in a karmic sense?

5)Is reincarnation in any way similar to rejuvenation?

6) What do you personally believe that you need to have in regards to faith that will keep you in communion and on "the team"?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 6:54 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 11:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 195 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 1:44 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 189 of 230 (880673)
08-09-2020 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 7:11 AM


Crime & Punishment 101
You can carry one small bag to walk 10 miles. But how would you feel if you carry the same bag, or even a smaller bag, but walk 10,000 miles?

I'm not sure how I would feel. I certainly wouldn't be eager to earn my way back into the graces of God were it even possible. Maybe that's why some folks believe in reincarnation...to give the people who missed the first bus another chance.

Or maybe that is your point. I would have needed to trust Him in the first place! It seems a bit cruel,however. God sounds wonderful IF you believe and are accepted into the club, but as for the rest of you, its outer darkness and increasing degrees of sin!

Rom 2:5-11 writes:

6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

One argument we always haave around here is whether Christianity is based on what you believe or on what you have done.

Comments?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 7:11 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 230 (880674)
08-09-2020 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 6:45 AM


I suppose some would say its a bit like rehiring the workers that had already been fired. Terrible for corporate efficiency.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 6:45 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by ringo, posted 08-09-2020 3:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 191 of 230 (880675)
08-09-2020 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 7:11 AM


Caught In Providence
juvenissun writes:

It may not sound right to you, but that is the Christianity, fair or not. Just like the Bible says: are you criticizing God being unfair?

I imagine that God would be at least as fair as Judge Frank Caprio.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 7:11 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 193 of 230 (880687)
08-09-2020 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Base12
08-09-2020 1:02 AM


Introducing Base12
I do not believe we have met. Welcome to EvC. One thing I will say is that you know how to make professional looking posts.

My critics often accuse me of simply making stuff up when I describe interpretations of Revelation and/or the Bible as I understand it. They no doubt would do the same thing to you. At EvC we challenge each other and it is tempting to take it personally and throw stuff right back at them, but in our Forum Guidelines we emphasize reasoned argumentation over personal attacks. Allow me to be the first member apart from our other newbie Juvenissun who challenges you. Once they get to know you and are unafraid to drive you off, they will out and out ridicule you...so grow your skin thick and pray the armor of God over you that you may stand your ground regarding your beliefs and yet be open minded enough to perhaps learn something from all of us from which to improve your presentations, beliefs, and encounters. This last advice is key. I now realize that you have a web page and no doubt want to plug it but do try and resist that temptation. We have had other members with web pages...I myself have one and yet I try and keep my activity here at the Forum separate from the activities on my page.

Anyhow, I hope that you are open enough to question your own beliefs. You and I are both Christians and yet our interpretations may differ. Are you ready to ask questions as well as offering answers?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 1:02 AM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 1:55 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 194 of 230 (880688)
08-09-2020 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Base12
08-09-2020 12:29 AM


Questions For Base12
Base12 writes:

The Mystery of Iniquity is like this big 'unsolvable mystery' to the Christian world. They endlessly debate as to what it means and who this 'Restrainer' is. It is NOT the Holy Ghost as is commonly taught.

Again, this is what happens when the Church decides to embrace a lie. The Truth is right there in plain sight, yet they can't see it because they've been programmed not to.

So sad.

I bet you have a lot of critics that charge you with preaching a false gospel. Tell me a bit about your religious background. Did you simply go out and start your own or are you in a sub culture with other like minded believers?

Allow me to ask you some questions.
1) Concerning the Holy Ghost vs the Electron metaphor, how was this "obvious truth" revealed to you and yet so many Christians have missed it?

2) The Bible teaches us as believers to be humble, considering others better than ourselves. Pride comes before destruction. Are you aware of the fact that at times you come across as cocky? (For the record, I too am guilty of this at times)

When you study, do you have any extra-biblical sources apart from the Bible?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 12:29 AM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 3:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 201 of 230 (880716)
08-10-2020 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Base12
08-09-2020 7:20 PM


Three Opinions
I see that scripture a third way.
The Beast which you saw once was=Lucifer the angel before he fell
Now is not=since there is only One God, the Beast is not.

And yet is for those whose names are not written in the book of life=If you willfully reject Jesus Christ, the Beast becomes your ruling "god" by default.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 7:20 PM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Base12, posted 08-10-2020 11:39 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 205 of 230 (880727)
08-10-2020 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Tangle
08-10-2020 2:17 PM


Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
yeah.
i see where you are coming from.

Try and see where I am at though. If the entire Bible is made up, (which I do NOT believe that it is) then people truly would be making up everything. I do not agree for several reasons.

1) I know to and through the best discernment and inner honesty that i can have that I was saved, that God is real and alive and....and that much I know.

People can and do make up anything and everything imaginable using the Bible, including me. I will of course argue that I have insight through the Holy Spirit, but comparing myself with these newbies I see no way anyone would believe me.

Im still seeking. I want to get to the full truth.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Tangle, posted 08-10-2020 2:17 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2020 3:50 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 208 of 230 (880746)
08-11-2020 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Tangle
08-11-2020 3:50 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Tangle writes:

...And millions of people believe just as fervently as you in something else that you know is also wrong. Your personal conviction is not unique Phat; it's just not real.

You do not know that my belief is not at least partially real. You will only argue that it is real to me and that the esteemed default position of the new ruling discipline of "Science" decrees that no belief will ever be real without evidence.

This is the problem with your position, though. In regard to a supernatural God, evidence will never be objectively available unless God Himself chose to reveal it.

Thus we are left with reasoned argumentation....or as I like to say, a reasonable philosophical argument....(made up or not) You say I need to start doubting my need for the "truth" but I say that your very doubt pushed you into the lack of belief you have now.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2020 3:50 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 8:47 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 211 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2020 10:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 221 of 230 (880848)
08-12-2020 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by ringo
08-12-2020 12:15 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
ringo writes:

Christians don't believe in the same "truth" as Buddhists. Catholics don't even believe the same "truth" as Protestants and fundamentalists don't believe the same "truth" as Anglicans.

Agreed. Were I to summarize the important truth that *should* be global, I would say that it is Jesus Christ. Literal Bibles, talking snakes, and karmic dualistic and/or humanistic concepts are irrelevant in light of the messenger. You may claim that if everyone simply followed the message it would work just as well and maybe better. The question is whether we can do it without any help from God.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 08-12-2020 12:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:10 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 225 of 230 (880891)
08-13-2020 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by ringo
08-13-2020 12:10 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
ringo writes:

Your perverted idea of God is a stumbling-block.

I beg your pardon? How is my idea of God in any way perverted?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020