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Author Topic:   Did Jesus teach reincarnation?
Base12
Junior Member (Idle past 16 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


(1)
Message 181 of 230 (880653)
08-09-2020 12:14 AM


Let's take a deeper look at the Lake of Fire.

It is *not* a 'final destination', it is a PORTAL. Those that are thrown into it go THROUGH it and backwards into the Timeline.

How do we know? The Lake of Fire comes from the Old Testament and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, commonly called Gehenna...

2 Chronicles 33:6
"And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."

Notice they pass *though* the fire. That phrase is used many times in the Bible to re-emphasize this extremely important fact.

The above is our first clue as to what happens to the Unsaved. Our second clue comes from Jesus himself...

Matthew 23:15 (Young's Literal Translation)
"Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen -- ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves."

Not only does Jesus use the phrase 'Son of Gehenna', implying that Gehenna is where this person is born from, but Jesus also implies that the Scribes and Pharisees come from the Lake of Fire as well!

If that wasn't enough, Jesus also uses the word 'twofold', meaning that the person was not only reincarnated from the Lake of Fire one time, but that person is already pre-destined to have to be reincarnated AGAIN!

This is one of many 'Smoking Gun' verses in the Bible that clearly indicate that the Lake of Fire is a place where Humans are born from.

Let's look even deeper still...

Jeremiah 19:6
"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter."

The word Tophet, another name for the Lake of Fire, means Hearth. The word Hearth in this context is actually the Goddess Hestia, also known as Vesta...

So what did Vesta look like? Let's let Wikipedia teach us...

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few, and were limited to tales of miraculous impregnation by a phallus appearing in the flames of the hearth —the manifestation of the goddess."

Vesta (mythology) - Wikipedia

Did you catch that?

Vesta, the Eternal Flame and Goddess of the Lake of Fire, manifests herself as a picture of the Moment of Conception!!!

Thus, the Lake of Fire is none other than a Phallus impregnating a Womb.

Remember, this is the Bible teaching us this, not 'New Age' or 'Gnosticism'. However, the Alchemists DID catch on to this fact and encoded this information into their artwork...

The above image depicts the Lake of Fire and the Sides of the Pit, yet is also is a picture of the Moment of Conception.

He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

One more...

Isaiah 29:2 (New International Version)
"Yet I will besiege Ariel; she will mourn and lament, she will be to me like an altar hearth."

Again, the word Hearth (Vesta) has to do with the Eternal Fire of the Altar of Sacrifice and the Lake of Fire.

But wait! The verse reveals a Mystery. This Goddess of the Eternal Fire has another name... Ariel...

Ariel is an angel found primarily in Jewish and Christian mysticism and Apocrypha. The literal meaning is "lion of God."

Ariel (angel) - Wikipedia

And guess what?

Ariel is also known as Uriel, the Archangel of the Garden of Eden that wields the Flaming Sword...

Uriel is often identified as a cherub and the angel of repentance. He "stands at the Gate of Eden with a fiery sword."

Uriel - Wikipedia

And there you have it. The Cherubim and Flaming Sword in the Garden of Eden represents the Lake of Fire in which Adam and Eve passed through to become reincarnated into the corrupted bodies we have today.


  
Base12
Junior Member (Idle past 16 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


Message 182 of 230 (880654)
08-09-2020 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Juvenissun
08-08-2020 9:27 AM


Juvenissun writes:

Thanks much for the elaboration. However, to your disappointment, I only see "resurrection" in your argument, but not "reincarnation".

I forgot to mention that the Biblical term for reincarnation is 'Mystery of Iniquity'. That's what it means!

Lol...

The Mystery of Iniquity is like this big 'unsolvable mystery' to the Christian world. They endlessly debate as to what it means and who this 'Restrainer' is. It is NOT the Holy Ghost as is commonly taught.

Again, this is what happens when the Church decides to embrace a lie. The Truth is right there in plain sight, yet they can't see it because they've been programmed not to.

So sad.

Mystery of Iniquity = Reincarnation.

Now you know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Juvenissun, posted 08-08-2020 9:27 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 08-09-2020 1:36 PM Base12 has responded

  
Base12
Junior Member (Idle past 16 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


Message 183 of 230 (880655)
08-09-2020 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Juvenissun
08-08-2020 9:27 AM


Juvenissun writes:

Reincarnation means I had a previous "human" life.
If so, how many times can one "reincarnate"?

Last post for tonight...

I'm fairly certain that the reason the Beast and the Dragon have seven heads is because that is how many times they have reincarnated...

Revelation 12:3
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

Revelation 13:1
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

The Dragon is Satan who is Spirit. In order for Satan to appear in Human form, he must be birthed as a Beast.

The Beast that rises out of the sea is something that occurs a total of seven times. That is why both Dragon and Beast have seven heads. Each head of the Beast is an incarnation.

The first time Satan is reincarnated into Human form is something I am still researching, however a likely candidate is Pharaoh...

Ezekiel 29:3
"Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself."

Notice Pharaoh is referred to as the Great Dragon, meaning Satan is reincarnated in Human form. This is the first head of the Beast.

As time goes on, Satan reincarnates over and over again until finally, there will one day be a Seventh Head.

So it's something like...

1) King of Egypt
2) King of Assyria
3) King of Greece
4) King of Persia
5) King of Greece
6) King of Rome
7) TBD

Soon their will be a final reincarnation of Satan in Human form. I say Human form because I am not sure if this being will be 100% Human or some sort of GMO Hybrid.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Juvenissun, posted 08-08-2020 9:27 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 184 of 230 (880664)
08-09-2020 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Base12
08-08-2020 10:22 PM


The Unsaved get reincarnated back into human form again.

Terrible concept.
It IS what the Buddhism emphasized.
I don't even want you to give me example on this one. It is WRONG.
(You may ask me why and we go from there).


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


(1)
Message 185 of 230 (880665)
08-09-2020 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Base12
08-08-2020 10:22 PM


If everyone received the exact same punishment (i.e. burning forever or annihilation), then there would be no point in judging 'according to their works'.

That is true.
Just like faithfuls will get different heavenly rewards, unfaithful will also get different degree of punishment.

BUT, whatever the reward or punishment is, it will be a one time deal. There is no room to repeat the earthly experience.

Do you know there are 18 levels of "hell" in oriental theology? There SHOULD be wide space in between the Heaven and the Lake of Fire, where a lot of unfaithful will go for eternal life.

No Reincarnation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Base12, posted 08-08-2020 10:22 PM Base12 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 08-09-2020 9:50 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


(1)
Message 186 of 230 (880666)
08-09-2020 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Base12
08-09-2020 1:02 AM


I'm fairly certain that the reason the Beast and the Dragon have seven heads is because that is how many times they have reincarnated...

How many times have YOU reincarnated?
One head means ... none?

Do you suspect that we have many reincarnated Jews wondering around in our society today? There will be no end to this fictional thought.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 1:02 AM Base12 has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 187 of 230 (880667)
08-09-2020 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Base12
08-08-2020 10:22 PM


What is the point of adding up every sin if it only takes one sin to be guilty? That would be an incredibly unfair system.

Of course there is a critical point to it.
If one is not "saved", then the more sinful one is (sinned more times), the more punishment one would get when he is put in "outside of the Heaven" (which includes the Lake of Fire). And remember, this punishment lasts "forever" long. You can carry one small bag to walk 10 miles. But how would you feel if you carry the same bag, or even a smaller bag, but walk 10,000 miles?

Does it take "one" sin to be guilty? No. Even a person of "no" sin, he is still guilty. It may not sound right to you, but that is the Christianity, fair or not. Just like the Bible says: are you criticizing God being unfair?

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14732
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 188 of 230 (880672)
08-09-2020 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 6:54 AM


Some questions
There SHOULD be wide space in between the Heaven and the Lake of Fire, where a lot of unfaithful will go for eternal life.
Several questions.
1) Why SHOULD there be a wide space? Social distancing?

2) What are the unfaithful guilty of? In your mind, what is the final(or the first) straw that broke the camels back?

3)What is the point of increasing punishment? Is not banishment to outer darkness enough? What possible reason would God have to inflict differing degrees of punishment?

4)What is the difference between reincarnation and redemption in a karmic sense?

5)Is reincarnation in any way similar to rejuvenation?

6) What do you personally believe that you need to have in regards to faith that will keep you in communion and on "the team"?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 6:54 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 11:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14732
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 189 of 230 (880673)
08-09-2020 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 7:11 AM


Crime & Punishment 101
You can carry one small bag to walk 10 miles. But how would you feel if you carry the same bag, or even a smaller bag, but walk 10,000 miles?

I'm not sure how I would feel. I certainly wouldn't be eager to earn my way back into the graces of God were it even possible. Maybe that's why some folks believe in reincarnation...to give the people who missed the first bus another chance.

Or maybe that is your point. I would have needed to trust Him in the first place! It seems a bit cruel,however. God sounds wonderful IF you believe and are accepted into the club, but as for the rest of you, its outer darkness and increasing degrees of sin!

Rom 2:5-11 writes:

6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

One argument we always haave around here is whether Christianity is based on what you believe or on what you have done.

Comments?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 7:11 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14732
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 230 (880674)
08-09-2020 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 6:45 AM


I suppose some would say its a bit like rehiring the workers that had already been fired. Terrible for corporate efficiency.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 6:45 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by ringo, posted 08-09-2020 3:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14732
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 191 of 230 (880675)
08-09-2020 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 7:11 AM


Caught In Providence
juvenissun writes:

It may not sound right to you, but that is the Christianity, fair or not. Just like the Bible says: are you criticizing God being unfair?

I imagine that God would be at least as fair as Judge Frank Caprio.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 7:11 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


(1)
Message 192 of 230 (880683)
08-09-2020 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Phat
08-09-2020 9:50 AM


Re: Some questions
1) Why SHOULD there be a wide space? Social distancing?
2) What are the unfaithful guilty of? In your mind, what is the final(or the first) straw that broke the camels back?

3)What is the point of increasing punishment? Is not banishment to outer darkness enough? What possible reason would God have to inflict differing degrees of punishment?

4)What is the difference between reincarnation and redemption in a karmic sense?

5)Is reincarnation in any way similar to rejuvenation?

6) What do you personally believe that you need to have in regards to faith that will keep you in communion and on "the team"?

Boy, this looks like a seminary school entrance test.
1. The "reason" is very simple: The Heaven has a boundary. Outside the Heaven is not the Heaven. So is the territory for the Lake of Fire. And, there HAS TO BE space in between the two. The Lake of Fire is not going to be in close contact to the Heaven. (that will not be GOOD in the eyes of God)

And this is related to your question 3:

3. There are two major places people will go: 1. Heaven; 2. Not Heaven. People in each places WILL receive different prices, rewards, or punishment. That is all the GWH Judgement is about. Otherwise, there is no need for that Judgement. As a consequence, there are better person and less better person, etc. among those who are NOT saved. Not every unfaithful will be ended in the Lake of Fire. I do expect to visit my unsaved friends in the future at places outside the Heaven, but also outside the Lake of Fire. (this understanding is based on the last few chapters of Revelation)

I think this is very very significant. We are not satisfied with a one-time only salary raise. We want a compounded salary raise. It does not sound much if I have $10 more than you. But if the inequality is at the forever time scale, then it becomes very very significant. That is why even we are saved, we still want to run toward the goal as hard as we could.

This is also related to your question in another post. To be saved is based on faith ONLY. But how glory one will be when we first arrived to the Heaven will, indeed, depend on the work one did on the earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 08-09-2020 9:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14732
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 193 of 230 (880687)
08-09-2020 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Base12
08-09-2020 1:02 AM


Introducing Base12
I do not believe we have met. Welcome to EvC. One thing I will say is that you know how to make professional looking posts.

My critics often accuse me of simply making stuff up when I describe interpretations of Revelation and/or the Bible as I understand it. They no doubt would do the same thing to you. At EvC we challenge each other and it is tempting to take it personally and throw stuff right back at them, but in our Forum Guidelines we emphasize reasoned argumentation over personal attacks. Allow me to be the first member apart from our other newbie Juvenissun who challenges you. Once they get to know you and are unafraid to drive you off, they will out and out ridicule you...so grow your skin thick and pray the armor of God over you that you may stand your ground regarding your beliefs and yet be open minded enough to perhaps learn something from all of us from which to improve your presentations, beliefs, and encounters. This last advice is key. I now realize that you have a web page and no doubt want to plug it but do try and resist that temptation. We have had other members with web pages...I myself have one and yet I try and keep my activity here at the Forum separate from the activities on my page.

Anyhow, I hope that you are open enough to question your own beliefs. You and I are both Christians and yet our interpretations may differ. Are you ready to ask questions as well as offering answers?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 1:02 AM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 1:55 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14732
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 194 of 230 (880688)
08-09-2020 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Base12
08-09-2020 12:29 AM


Questions For Base12
Base12 writes:

The Mystery of Iniquity is like this big 'unsolvable mystery' to the Christian world. They endlessly debate as to what it means and who this 'Restrainer' is. It is NOT the Holy Ghost as is commonly taught.

Again, this is what happens when the Church decides to embrace a lie. The Truth is right there in plain sight, yet they can't see it because they've been programmed not to.

So sad.

I bet you have a lot of critics that charge you with preaching a false gospel. Tell me a bit about your religious background. Did you simply go out and start your own or are you in a sub culture with other like minded believers?

Allow me to ask you some questions.
1) Concerning the Holy Ghost vs the Electron metaphor, how was this "obvious truth" revealed to you and yet so many Christians have missed it?

2) The Bible teaches us as believers to be humble, considering others better than ourselves. Pride comes before destruction. Are you aware of the fact that at times you come across as cocky? (For the record, I too am guilty of this at times)

When you study, do you have any extra-biblical sources apart from the Bible?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 12:29 AM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 3:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 195 of 230 (880689)
08-09-2020 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Phat
08-09-2020 9:50 AM


Re: Some questions
2) What are the unfaithful guilty of? In your mind, what is the final(or the first) straw that broke the camels back?

4)What is the difference between reincarnation and redemption in a karmic sense?

5)Is reincarnation in any way similar to rejuvenation?

6) What do you personally believe that you need to have in regards to faith that will keep you in communion and on "the team"?

2. Everyone is guilty since conception. Evidence: we live in a cursed world.
6. As long as people are "saved", there is no need to have the same interpretation on Bible verses. It is quite healthy for every faithful to have a different interpretation in Christian theology.

Reincarnation in Buddhism:

4. Reincarnation does not need any redemption.

5. One rejuvenated to the situation of his young (earlier) stage. One reincarnated to a later one with various degree of continuity, consciously or unconsciously.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 08-09-2020 9:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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