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Author Topic:   Did Jesus teach reincarnation?
Base12
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


Message 196 of 230 (880692)
08-09-2020 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
08-09-2020 1:09 PM


Re: Introducing Base12
Phat writes:

I do not believe we have met. Welcome to EvC.

Hi Phat. Nice to meet you. Thanks for the warm welcome and the advice.

I actually don't like to advertise my site as I prefer to be as anonymous as possible.

It's refreshing to see folks take discussions seriously. I look forward to learning more.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 08-09-2020 1:09 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Base12
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


(1)
Message 197 of 230 (880695)
08-09-2020 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Phat
08-09-2020 1:36 PM


Re: Questions For Base12
Phat writes:

I bet you have a lot of critics that charge you with preaching a false gospel.


Yes, unfortunately their "criticism" is usually ad-hominem which is frustrating. True debate is becoming a lost art.

Phat writes:

Tell me a bit about your religious background. Did you simply go out and start your own or are you in a sub culture with other like minded believers?

Most of my family is Catholic, but we rarely went to Church. I didn't start studying the Bible until the early 2000's. That's when I decided being Catholic was not for me. I consider myself non-denominational because I feel like I am forced to believe what they tell me as opposed to what is written.

Phat writes:

1) Concerning the Holy Ghost vs the Electron metaphor, how was this "obvious truth" revealed to you and yet so many Christians have missed it?


I try and take verses as literal as possible. In my opinion, Godhead means Trinity. Thus after reading Romans 1:20...

...it's not rocket science to figure out what three components make up matter. The only thing left to do is to figure out what part of of the Godhead corresponds to which part of the Atom.

Obviously, one of the three components would be the Electron. Now it's a matter of letting Scripture show us which part of the Godhead that would be...

Acts 1:8
"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

Everyone knows what Power is. Almost every electronic device we own has a 'Power' button. Most folks press one every day. We know what it does. It sends Electrons through the device to turn it on.

Thus the Holy Ghost represents Power and Electromagnetism. It's really just that obvious. Now of course there are many more verses and evidence to back all of this up, but you get the idea.

My occupation is in Engineering, so perhaps it's more obvious to me than others, however I feel that in this day and age there is no excuse for not knowing this as Romans 1:20 even states at the end.

The problem is that many folks simply choose not to see it. That's the real issue.

Phat writes:

2) The Bible teaches us as believers to be humble, considering others better than ourselves. Pride comes before destruction. Are you aware of the fact that at times you come across as cocky? (For the record, I too am guilty of this at times)


Of course. I do it on purpose from time to time to try and get folks to respond. Many times my posts get ignored, so I throw a bit of Elijah mockery in there to keep things entertaining...

1 Kings 18:27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

It's more a jab at the ad-hominem folks that are too lazy to do their homework.

Phat writes:

When you study, do you have any extra-biblical sources apart from the Bible?


Only if that source agrees with the Bible, otherwise, no I don't use anything that contradicts the 66 books.

I'm not a big fan of the Book of Enoch for example or the Gospel of Thomas etc., although I have found some intriguing correlations. The Gospel of Thomas for example has a few reincarnation verses in it, but unfortunately I can't use them in my research as they are not in the standard Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 08-09-2020 1:36 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 198 of 230 (880699)
08-09-2020 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
08-09-2020 10:11 AM


Phat writes:

I suppose some would say its a bit like rehiring the workers that had already been fired. Terrible for corporate efficiency.


I'd say it's more like sending them back down to the mail room.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 08-09-2020 10:11 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Base12
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


Message 199 of 230 (880708)
08-09-2020 7:20 PM


How about another example of reincarnation in the Bible?

Let's look at the word 'Pit'...

Isaiah 14:15
"Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Earlier we learned that Hell is nothing more than a parable for the Womb and the process of reincarnation.

Now we have a new word associated with Hell called the 'Pit' or even 'Sides of the Pit'.

So is the word Pit another reference to the Womb? Let's let the Word of God teach us...

Isaiah 51:1
"Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged."

Wait what!?

People are digged from a Pit? Perhaps this means they were in a bad predicament.

Let's investigate further...

Isaiah 51:2
"Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him."

Now we see the answer clearly. The 'Pit' in this context is in reference to Sarah, or more specifically, her Womb that bared them.

Now we know what happens to those that get "thrown into the Pit". They are really going back to the Womb to be born again of corruptible flesh...

So where does the Beast come from?

Revelation 17:8
"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Indeed, the Beast comes out of the Pit to be birthed once again. And just look at the reference to reincarnation!

Was, is not, and yet is.

That is yet another Biblical term for reincarnation...

WAS, IS NOT, AND YET IS = REINCARNATION

Now you know.


Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 9:45 PM Base12 has not yet responded
 Message 201 by Phat, posted 08-10-2020 3:36 AM Base12 has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 200 of 230 (880715)
08-09-2020 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Base12
08-09-2020 7:20 PM


WAS, IS NOT, AND YET IS = REINCARNATION

NO! It should be:

WAS, IS NOT, AND YET IS = INCARNATION


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 7:20 PM Base12 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 201 of 230 (880716)
08-10-2020 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Base12
08-09-2020 7:20 PM


Three Opinions
I see that scripture a third way.
The Beast which you saw once was=Lucifer the angel before he fell
Now is not=since there is only One God, the Beast is not.

And yet is for those whose names are not written in the book of life=If you willfully reject Jesus Christ, the Beast becomes your ruling "god" by default.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Base12, posted 08-09-2020 7:20 PM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Base12, posted 08-10-2020 11:39 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Base12
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


Message 202 of 230 (880719)
08-10-2020 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Phat
08-10-2020 3:36 AM


Re: Three Opinions
Phat writes:

I see that scripture a third way.
The Beast which you saw once was=Lucifer the angel before he fell


That's seems to be a popular teaching, however I disagree with it.

I believe that it is Satan that fell and became Lucifer, who is just another one of the seven heads.

Satan is the Spirit that falls in order to be birthed into a physical being, over and over again.

Lucifer was in reference to the King of Babylon, most likely Belshazzar...

Isaiah 14:4
"That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!"

Lucifer was a man as can be seen here...

Isaiah 14:16
"They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

Jesus saw Satan fall as lightning...

Luke 10:18
"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

This was the moment Satan fell yet again to be birthed as the King of Rome or the sixth head of the Beast. Maybe Nero? I'm still researching this.

Notice that Satan, as Spirit, is like lightning. Think of what I've been trying to teach you folks about Spirit being Electromagnetism.

Think of Ghosts. What are they made of? Think of an Aura or a Halo. It is some form of Energy...

When the Holy Ghost descended on Jesus, it was in a 'bodily shape', like a Ghost we may see in Science Fiction...

Luke 3:22
"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

The above verse is describing some sort of Energy Field surrounding and penetrating his body. Perhaps it is an example of Quantum Entanglement.

That is the same thing as the Eyes in Ezekiel's Wheels. The Wheels represent Electron Orbitals and the Eyes are Electrons because the Spirit was in the Wheels...

Over and over we see Spirit and Electrons/Electromagnetism associated with one another in Scripture.

I'll show one more...

Ezekiel 1:4
And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

See the word Amber?

Amber is where we get the word Electron from...

"Both electric and electricity are derived from the Latin ēlectrum (also the root of the alloy of the same name), which came from the Greek word for amber, (ēlektron)."

Electron - Wikipedia

Thus, Ezekiel was being shown a representation of Atomic Construct. To put it another way... Ezekiel was shown the Godhead.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Phat, posted 08-10-2020 3:36 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Base12, posted 08-10-2020 1:48 PM Base12 has not yet responded

  
Base12
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


Message 203 of 230 (880722)
08-10-2020 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Base12
08-10-2020 11:39 AM


Re: Three Opinions
Base12 writes:

That is the same thing as the Eyes in Ezekiel's Wheels. The Wheels represent Electron Orbitals and the Eyes are Electrons because the Spirit was in the Wheels

So again...

EYES = ELECTRONS = SPIRIT

Not convinced?

The Word of God teaches Truth...

Revelation 5:6
"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

There you go. Seven Eyes are Seven Spirits. Plain as day.

Now there are some that will shrug this off and go 'meh, so what?'.

They will never see the prize that awaits them when these clues are all added together.

Why does the Lamb have Seven Eyes?

Here is another clue...

2 Chronicles 16:9
"For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars."

The above describes how Electrons 'run to and fro' throughout the Earth like electricity in a circuit.

Again...

Zechariah 4:10
"For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth."

But why Seven Eyes?

The Seven Eyes are part of the Stone that the Builders Rejected...

Zechariah 3:9
"For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day."

Jesus is the Stone with Seven Eyes. Jesus is the Word of God.

Seven Electrons = Nitrogen... more specifically, a Nitrogenous Base, the Word of God that makes up DNA.

The Lamb with Seven Eyes is a picture of a Nucleobase. The Word Made Flesh...

The Blood of the Lamb is the DNA template by which we all will be grafted into.

Now go back and read what Zerubbabel said the LORD of Hosts will do with said Nucleobase...

"I will engrave the graving thereof"

That is what we call Genetic Engineering.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Base12, posted 08-10-2020 11:39 AM Base12 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 5:42 PM Base12 has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 204 of 230 (880724)
08-10-2020 2:17 PM


So Phat, can you begin to understand the 'Christians are making shit up' hypothesis yet?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Phat, posted 08-10-2020 4:02 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 205 of 230 (880727)
08-10-2020 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Tangle
08-10-2020 2:17 PM


Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
yeah.
i see where you are coming from.

Try and see where I am at though. If the entire Bible is made up, (which I do NOT believe that it is) then people truly would be making up everything. I do not agree for several reasons.

1) I know to and through the best discernment and inner honesty that i can have that I was saved, that God is real and alive and....and that much I know.

People can and do make up anything and everything imaginable using the Bible, including me. I will of course argue that I have insight through the Holy Spirit, but comparing myself with these newbies I see no way anyone would believe me.

Im still seeking. I want to get to the full truth.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Tangle, posted 08-10-2020 2:17 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2020 3:50 AM Phat has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 206 of 230 (880732)
08-10-2020 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Base12
08-10-2020 1:48 PM


Re: Three Opinions
How much time you spent to put all these pieces together? Or you just copy other's idea?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Base12, posted 08-10-2020 1:48 PM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Base12, posted 08-11-2020 12:28 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 207 of 230 (880742)
08-11-2020 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Phat
08-10-2020 4:02 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Phat writes:

Try and see where I am at though. If the entire Bible is made up, (which I do NOT believe that it is) then people truly would be making up everything. I do not agree for several reasons.

We know that the Mormon bible is made up and we know that Mormons believe it just as much as you believe in yours and just as much as our loonie friend above believes his version of yours too.

1) I know to and through the best discernment and inner honesty that i can have that I was saved, that God is real and alive and....and that much I know.

And millions of people believe just as fervently as you in something else that you know is also wrong. Your personal conviction is not unique Phat; it's just not real.

Im still seeking. I want to get to the full truth.

Then you need to start doubting your need for it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Phat, posted 08-10-2020 4:02 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 08-11-2020 7:58 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 208 of 230 (880746)
08-11-2020 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Tangle
08-11-2020 3:50 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Tangle writes:

...And millions of people believe just as fervently as you in something else that you know is also wrong. Your personal conviction is not unique Phat; it's just not real.

You do not know that my belief is not at least partially real. You will only argue that it is real to me and that the esteemed default position of the new ruling discipline of "Science" decrees that no belief will ever be real without evidence.

This is the problem with your position, though. In regard to a supernatural God, evidence will never be objectively available unless God Himself chose to reveal it.

Thus we are left with reasoned argumentation....or as I like to say, a reasonable philosophical argument....(made up or not) You say I need to start doubting my need for the "truth" but I say that your very doubt pushed you into the lack of belief you have now.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2020 3:50 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 8:47 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 211 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2020 10:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 209 of 230 (880751)
08-11-2020 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Phat
08-11-2020 7:58 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Phat writes:

I say that your very doubt pushed you into the lack of belief you have now.


That's the whole point of critical thinking: to free us from belief and connect us to reality.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 08-11-2020 7:58 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 210 of 230 (880760)
08-11-2020 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by ringo
08-11-2020 8:47 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
That's the whole point of critical thinking: to free us from belief and connect us to reality.

Critical thinking is limited by logic. There ARE truth beyond logic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 8:47 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 12:19 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
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