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Author Topic:   Did Jesus teach reincarnation?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 211 of 230 (880762)
08-11-2020 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Phat
08-11-2020 7:58 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Phat writes:

You do not know that my belief is not at least partially real.

I know what you tell us your belief is.

You will only argue that it is real to me

That's just a truism.

and that the esteemed default position of the new ruling discipline of "Science" decrees that no belief will ever be real without evidence.

How many times over how many years? If there is evidence, it's not a belief, it's a fact.

This is the problem with your position, though. In regard to a supernatural God, evidence will never be objectively available unless God Himself chose to reveal it.

That is not a problem with my position. That's a problem with his postion.

You say I need to start doubting my need for the "truth"

I do not say that, I say that you need to examine why you feel the need for this so called truth, in the light of the tangible and inescapable evidence that others have your same conviction but for a different god.

Please explain how that is possible.

but I say that your very doubt pushed you into the lack of belief you have now.

Crap, I have no doubt and I don't lack belief. Religious belief is just irrelevant to me, just like fairy dust and unicorn droppings — an absurdity.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 08-11-2020 7:58 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 212 of 230 (880768)
08-11-2020 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 9:38 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Juvenissun writes:

Critical thinking is limited by logic.


I think it depends more on evidence. Logic is just a sieve that we run the evidence through.

Juvenissun writes:

There ARE truth beyond logic.


The problem with that idea is that the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 9:38 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:33 PM ringo has responded
 Message 219 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:12 AM ringo has responded

  
Base12
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


(1)
Message 213 of 230 (880769)
08-11-2020 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Juvenissun
08-10-2020 5:42 PM


Juvenissun writes:

How much time you spent to put all these pieces together? Or you just copy other's idea?


I've been researching and publishing these concepts since the mid 2000's.

Many talented folks have contributed, which is why I pass this on to others freely. Nothing is copyrighted and I don't take credit for any of it.

This is not about me. Who I am matters not.

At the end of the day it's God who gets all of the credit.

Amen.

Edited by Base12, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 5:42 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:37 PM Base12 has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 214 of 230 (880812)
08-11-2020 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by ringo
08-11-2020 12:19 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
The problem with that idea is that the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is.

It does not matter. Scientists rarely agree on new things or new feature. But they know it is something new.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 12:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 9:42 PM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 215 of 230 (880813)
08-11-2020 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Base12
08-11-2020 12:28 PM


I've been researching and publishing these concepts since the mid 2000's.
Many talented folks have contributed, which is why I pass this on to others freely. Nothing is copyrighted and I don't take credit for any of it.

This is not about me. Who I am matters not.

At the end of the day it's God who gets all of the credit.

Do you think what we (who argued against you) know is wrong? Or what you know is in addition to what we know?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Base12, posted 08-11-2020 12:28 PM Base12 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Base12, posted 08-11-2020 9:46 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 216 of 230 (880820)
08-11-2020 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 8:33 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Juvenissun writes:

Scientists rarely agree on new things or new feature.


That's a good sign. They test a lot of possibilities before drawing conclusions. Believers in ultimate "truth" do not.

And there's more good news: scientists eventually come to a consensus. Believers just cling to their own versions of "the truth".


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:33 PM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
Base12
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 07-12-2020


Message 217 of 230 (880821)
08-11-2020 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 8:37 PM


Juvenissun writes:

Do you think what we (who argued against you) know is wrong? Or what you know is in addition to what we know?

Whether someone is right or wrong is ultimately up to God to decide.

Having said that, if someone interprets a verse in contradiction to the rest of the Bible, I'm going to challenge that interpretation by posting proof in the form of other verses.

If the other person has no verses to back up their claim, then the debate is over. In other words, simply saying "you're wrong" isn't proof of being correct. If that is all they have then I see no point in any further discussion.

As far as what others have posted in this thread, I've yet to see any verses challenging or contradicting my claims.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:37 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:09 AM Base12 has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 218 of 230 (880832)
08-12-2020 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Base12
08-11-2020 9:46 PM


As far as what others have posted in this thread, I've yet to see any verses challenging or contradicting my claims.

Among other things, I oppose your use of the word "reincarnation". I think you can not tell "reincarnation" from "incarnation". All examples you gave can easily be interpreted as incarnation, rather than re.... .


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 Message 217 by Base12, posted 08-11-2020 9:46 PM Base12 has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 219 of 230 (880833)
08-12-2020 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by ringo
08-11-2020 12:19 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
The problem with that idea is that the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is.

Yes, they do can. Do you know what it is? Of course you do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 12:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 08-12-2020 12:15 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 220 of 230 (880841)
08-12-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Juvenissun
08-12-2020 8:12 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Juvenissun writes:

ringo writes:

... the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is.


Yes, they do can

They sure as hell do NOT. Christians don't believe in the same "truth" as Buddhists. Catholics don't even believe the same "truth" as Protestants and fundamentalists don't believe the same "truth" as Anglicans.

Juvenissun writes:

Do you know what it is? Of course you do.


Tell us.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:12 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 08-12-2020 3:03 PM ringo has responded
 Message 222 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:08 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 221 of 230 (880848)
08-12-2020 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by ringo
08-12-2020 12:15 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
ringo writes:

Christians don't believe in the same "truth" as Buddhists. Catholics don't even believe the same "truth" as Protestants and fundamentalists don't believe the same "truth" as Anglicans.

Agreed. Were I to summarize the important truth that *should* be global, I would say that it is Jesus Christ. Literal Bibles, talking snakes, and karmic dualistic and/or humanistic concepts are irrelevant in light of the messenger. You may claim that if everyone simply followed the message it would work just as well and maybe better. The question is whether we can do it without any help from God.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 08-12-2020 12:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:10 PM Phat has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 222 of 230 (880858)
08-12-2020 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by ringo
08-12-2020 12:15 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
All religious people believe in one thing: God exists.
Plus another one: There is life after this life.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 08-12-2020 12:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:19 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 223 of 230 (880885)
08-13-2020 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Phat
08-12-2020 3:03 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Phat writes:

Literal Bibles, talking snakes, and karmic dualistic and/or humanistic concepts are irrelevant in light of the messenger.


And the messenger is irrelevant in light of the message. You know that. You don't throw your mail away and keep the envelopes.

Phat writes:

The question is whether we can do it without any help from God.


The answer is yes.

Your perverted idea of God is a stumbling-block.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 08-12-2020 3:03 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Phat, posted 08-13-2020 12:39 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 224 of 230 (880887)
08-13-2020 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Juvenissun
08-12-2020 8:08 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
Juvenissun writes:

All religious people believe in one thing: God exists.


They believe in many different gods. There is certainly not a universal truth.

Juvenissun writes:

Plus another one: There is life after this life.


Again, there are many different views of the afterlife.

You might as well claim that the best flavor of ice cream is a universal truth, even though everybody has a different favorite.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:08 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Juvenissun, posted 08-13-2020 12:40 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 225 of 230 (880891)
08-13-2020 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by ringo
08-13-2020 12:10 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
ringo writes:

Your perverted idea of God is a stumbling-block.

I beg your pardon? How is my idea of God in any way perverted?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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