Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8937 total)
28 online now:
caffeine, jar, PaulK, RAZD, Theodoric (5 members, 23 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: ssope
Post Volume: Total: 861,828 Year: 16,864/19,786 Month: 989/2,598 Week: 235/251 Day: 6/58 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Explaining the pro-Evolution position
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 393 (792295)
10-07-2016 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Kleinman
10-07-2016 4:38 PM


Natural selection is totally relevant. Natural selection must do something very specific in order to improve the probability that a beneficial mutation will occur.

According to the theory of evolution, natural selection affects the probability that a given mutation is actually beneficial. It is not required that natural selection affect the actual probability that mutations, beneficial or not, actually occur. After all, whether or not a given mutation is beneficial is at least in part associated with environmental factors. Examples of genetic changes that are beneficial/non-beneficial based on the environment and natural selection include melanin affecting mutations, lactase intolerance persistance, and sickle cell anemia.

If you want to argue from the premise you have presented here, you need to lay ground work to establish that your assertion is correct. So far you have not done so.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Kleinman, posted 10-07-2016 4:38 PM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Kleinman, posted 10-07-2016 7:17 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 393 (792308)
10-08-2016 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Kleinman
10-07-2016 7:17 PM


There are two possible outcomes for this random trial, a mutation does occur at a particular site in the genome or a mutation does not occur at a particular site in a genome. So we are dealing with a simple binomial probability problem.

Not necessarily a simple binomial problem. It is possible that the probability that a mutation occurs at a given site is affected by environmental concerns. But the evidence suggests that this probability is not, generally speaking, correlated with the mutation being beneficial in any given environment, let alone the environment that produced the increased rate. For example, radiation may produce mutations, but those mutations generally don't make it more likely that the offspring are radiation proof.

You are correct, I should lay more groundwork to establish that my assertions are correct...

I'll talk about the second trial in a later post.

It is an improvement that you are electing to add to the discussion. But let me note that in your current posts you do not present mathematics. You merely talk about the need to do so.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Kleinman, posted 10-07-2016 7:17 PM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 7:47 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 57 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 7:50 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 58 by Kleinman, posted 10-09-2016 7:56 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 391 of 393 (792937)
10-16-2016 1:57 AM


Summation
What happens when your mouth writes a check that your butt cannot cash...

Kleinman writes:

Let's see how well established the theory of evolution is. Why does combination therapy work for the treatment of HIV?

Followed by dribbling out that works towards a hypothesis that would have been dismissed hundreds of posts earlier if it had been posted all at once. You have been trolled.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019