Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Hypocrisy Among American Fundamentalists
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 33 of 122 (777463)
02-01-2016 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Hyroglyphx
02-01-2016 4:08 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
I find politicking in churches to particularly disgusting and completely inappropriate.
It's interesting then to consider that before the Revolutionary War there were many American pulpits engaged in preaching one way or the other about the question of having a war of independence from Britain, and various Biblical texts WERE used. Both sides of the issue were preached but the "black robed regiment" that preached for independence were thought to have had the most powerful influence.
Political preaching can of course be a bad thing depending on how it's done but there's nothing in principle wrong with pastors and Christians supporting a particular political position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-01-2016 4:08 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Taq, posted 02-01-2016 4:21 PM Faith has replied
 Message 40 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-01-2016 8:28 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 38 of 122 (777476)
02-01-2016 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Taq
02-01-2016 4:21 PM


Re: Politics before Christianity
It would seem like an abuse of power to use the pulpit to push your opinion to a captive audience who is there for an entirely different message.
This sort of abuse is highly unlikely. Congregations aren't captive audiences. They hire and fire the pastors, and disappointed or disgruntled members leave churches all the time as well.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Taq, posted 02-01-2016 4:21 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Taq, posted 02-02-2016 4:14 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 41 of 122 (777480)
02-02-2016 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Hyroglyphx
02-01-2016 8:28 PM


Re: Politics before Christianity
So then there's nothing wrong with Rev. Jeremiah Wright or Reverend Al Sharpton or Rev. Jesse Jackson using the pulpit to push a political agenda?
What a strange thing to say. I don't recall having much if anything at all to say about these men, but in any case I wouldn't say they can't preach whatever they want. I would probably say I object to their views, that's different. About Jeremiah Wright, the point is what Obama believes, not Wright's right to preach it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-01-2016 8:28 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2016 1:19 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 46 of 122 (777495)
02-02-2016 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Taq
02-02-2016 4:14 PM


Re: Politics before Christianity
Gosh, "captive" for a whole forty-five minute sermon. As I said, congregations have the power over the pastor, a situation where he offends them by a political speech isn't going to happen often if at all.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Taq, posted 02-02-2016 4:14 PM Taq has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 54 of 122 (777521)
02-03-2016 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Hyroglyphx
02-03-2016 1:19 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
Well I for one wouldn't stay in a church where the pastor pushed for a political agenda that had no scriptural support. However, there are scriptural grounds for arguing against Obamacare, against its socialism for instance, against the misuse of funds for instance, which are major objections to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2016 1:19 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2016 1:38 AM Faith has replied
 Message 65 by Aussie, posted 02-03-2016 1:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 56 of 122 (777523)
02-03-2016 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Hyroglyphx
02-03-2016 1:26 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
You do bring up a problem with tax exemption when you mention Scientology, certainly not a "religion" the tax-exempt status was intended to protect, but I'm sure it's too late to argue us out of that one, or the same status applied to cults and wicca and Satanism for that matter. It's all part of the end times package designed to destroy western civilization. Au revoir Great Experiment.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2016 1:26 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 02-03-2016 8:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 58 of 122 (777526)
02-03-2016 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Hyroglyphx
02-03-2016 1:38 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
I don't want a pastor telling me that Trump or Sanders make for good candidates. I want the gospel itself to make it evident through revelation.
Sounds reasonable but in reality I don't think it is. Unfortunately the "gospel itself" isn't identical in everybody's mind no matter how well the preacher expounds it. We've had it argued from an amazing variety of angles here at EvC for instance. Scripture tells us we are to be salt and light to the culture, which is an exhortation to present the biblical truths for the sake of preventing the culture's deterioration under the influence of the fallen nature*, and the church has been given God's gift of pastors and teachers because most of us don't have the time or the ability to properly interpret scripture without help, and they've been trained for the job -- they won't all agree either but we should be able to expect them to share principles that bring most of them into agreement. That means they ought to present any issues of the day through a biblical lens as they seem important.
{ABE: Also few of us have the time or take the time or have the biblical perspective to analyze the relevant factors in any particular candidate's claims. I definitely I feel I need a strong biblical preacher to inform me of what's important about Trump or Sanders from a political perspective./abe}
*Some of us see this very deterioration as having picked up speed over the last few decades until now it would take a miracle to turn it back: hence the idea we are in the last of the last days, sliding down to the rule of the Antichrist, followed by Jesus' return.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2016 1:38 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2016 1:56 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 60 of 122 (777528)
02-03-2016 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Hyroglyphx
02-03-2016 1:56 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
I added a paragraph about why we need preachers to investigate candidates too, that you probably missed. Anyway, it isn't just a matter of which church "endorses" which candidate, it's a matter of the thoroughness of the biblical analysis of each candidate's history and thinking.
As for letting the end times slide as slide they will, we are never told in scripture to let evil triumph. Our job is always to be supporting righteousness even against impossible odds.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2016 1:56 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 02-03-2016 2:08 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 62 of 122 (777532)
02-03-2016 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
02-03-2016 2:08 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
I would say that our job is to allow righteousness to live through us. It is possible, and it requires more humility than i currently possess.
Sounds good but in practicality, even if we could do it consistently, how could we demonstrate a righteous political choice merely by how we act? You don't seem to want us to SAY anything, PREACH anything, do anything at all except act righteously, which you don't describe. And if we could, who would we influence except those closest to us? Not that that's not worth anything, but it doesn't make us salt and light in the culture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 02-03-2016 2:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 02-03-2016 7:47 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 81 of 122 (777593)
02-04-2016 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Hyroglyphx
02-04-2016 2:19 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
ABE: I've removed the part of the post that was considered too personal. /ABE
===============================
The gospels are not THE Gospel, which is what ICANT said, Jesus' dying to pay for our sins so that we are spared their consequences. That's what salvation is and that is what is known as THE gospel.
But now I'm curious what this has to do with the current discussion
ICANT was responding to your statement in Message 57 that you think a preacher should only present "the gospel" and not argue politics. I earlier responded as if you had said "the Bible" or the New Testament, though I should have asked as ICANT did what you mean by the gospel. f
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-04-2016 2:19 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Percy, posted 02-04-2016 7:23 AM Faith has replied
 Message 103 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-05-2016 2:29 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 87 of 122 (777617)
02-04-2016 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Percy
02-04-2016 7:23 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
ABE: Removed because considered too personal. /ABE
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Percy, posted 02-04-2016 7:23 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Percy, posted 02-04-2016 12:47 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 98 of 122 (777641)
02-04-2016 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Phat
02-04-2016 8:20 PM


Re: Testing Against Reality
Phat, what you are saying about God's words being alive is said in the Bible here:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
One commentary I read pointed out the common experience of believers of the Bible's speaking directly to us about our own circumstances when we read it or hear it preached.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 02-04-2016 8:20 PM Phat has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 107 of 122 (777653)
02-05-2016 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Hyroglyphx
02-05-2016 2:38 AM


Re: Politics before Christianity
Oh, I understand now. Yeah, that's clearly a tax dodge and something that should be explicitly forbidden.
According to kbertsche it's not a tax dodge. You should read his Message 100
abe: P.S. In case you won't see them, I removed the offending personal remarks in the previous posts to you.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-05-2016 2:38 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by NoNukes, posted 02-10-2016 12:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024