Why Do Gay Men Sound Gay?

What is amazing is that your bigotry seems to know no bounds. What possessed you to think this was a topic worth discussing?You have a vile stereotype for everyone that is different than you. Crawl back under your rock.Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Yes and some black men like watermelon. Some hispanics are lazy. Some hillbillys have sex with their sisters. Some asians are very good at math. Some gay men have a lisp.All stereotypes.I can also say that some white men like watermelon. Some white people are lazy. Some wealthy men have sex with their sisters and some straight men have a lisp.Faith is perpetuating a stereotypical view of a group of people. This is just another example of the vile bigotry shown by Faith time and time again.

Not hatred, disgust. Very different feelings. Hatred takes effort. You are not worth effort.

Your response is not logical. It would presume that appreciable more gay men have this "voice" than straight men. I do not think facts would bear you out. Many straight men act and sound effeminate.
Your bigotry is showing. Gay does not mean effeminate. I know quite a few gay people. I also know some effeminate sounding men. There are hardly more effeminate sound gay men then straight men in my experience. Some of the most masculine seeming men I know are gay and some of the most effeminate sounding men I know are straight.If you want to help perpetuate stereotypes that is your choice.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Faith has a history of posting, bigoted, racist and homophobic comments. Most people treat Faith with kid gloves. I refuse to.So you would all be ok if Faith had a post that said Why do black people like chicken so much? or Why are Mexican's so lazy? Why are Native American's drunks? Are all of you willing to say those are legitimate curiosities? It is no different, it is reinforcing stereotypes, which is in itself discriminatory and prejudicial.You are right about the feminine words I used, I should have used camp. I am just used to people saying it is effeminate sounding.If people here want to support prejudice and discrimination that is their decision. As a person that comes from a family that has put up with prejudice and discrimination for generations and has suffered personally due to stereotypes, I refuse to allow it to happen without calling it out.This is not a PC statement, unless you feel calling out prejudice and stereotypes is being PC, When did not being offensive to a class of people become being PC?

You might have noticed I worded it as a general reply.

Nice attempt at building a strawman. I did not say any such thing. Why would you think that I think there is something wrong with the speech pattern?Is there something wrong with liking fried chicken? I guess the subtlety was lost on you, and others, but I carefully chose my examples and went from a seemingly innocuous stereotype and made them progressively offensive. How about these OP's?Why are Jews so good with money?Why are Asian youth so good at Math?Are you ok with these discussions to satisfy someone's "curiosity"?Why did no one ask thewriter of the OP if they thought there was a problem with that way of speaking?Faith uses the term gay as a pejorative in the title of the OP.
Why Do Gay Men Sound Gay?
Read that again and tell me how you can rationalize it in that "Sound Gay" is not an attempt to say there is a problem with how they sound.The purpose of the stereotypes I listed was to show how harmful stereotypes of any sort are. Yes, stereotypes have some basis in observation and reality. Fried chicken is a known dish in southern/soul cooking. The image of the lazy Mexican probably comes from the cultural artifact that in some places in the tropics people take time off, siesta, in the middle of the day. Alcoholism is a terrible and persistent problem in the Native American communities, though a recent study seems to show that there is no more a problem than in the dominant white culture.
U of A study debunks alcohol abuse stereotypes in Native Americans
Stereotypes of any type are dehumanizing. The purpose of them is so that people do not have to look at a person as an individual, but as the stereotypical representation they want them to be.

You have me confused. Yes that was part of my response to Dr. A. His statement was not logical. My response to you was a general over all response. What part of that are you having an issue with?

A stereotype is a stereotype. You know this from observation or stereotype?
Is there a problem with this "gay speech pattern" you describe? It seems no one else wants to ask you that question.

I am not saying it does. Dr A is making the presumption it seems. He needs to back his presumption. I am just saying that without evidence this is just a stereotype. Yes, reinforcing stereotypes is bigoted behavior. Dr A was reinforcing a stereotype So you want to get into a pissing match? The only reason I mentioned it is that I wanted to express I was speaking from at least some personal experience. In contrast to Faith who is just spewing bigotry. I think personal experience has as much or more legitimacy than a stereotype. My point exactly. Lets look at the science not the stereotypes that everyone seems comfortable with. Obviously the point about the harm of stereotypes is lost on you and others in this thread. Even if 5 times as many gay men had a "gay sounding" voice than straight men, it would still be a stereotype. If you can show the majority of gay men cted this way then it would not be a stereotype.

But your ideas of this are not at all what Faith meant in the OP. Faith used the term Sound Gay as a pejorative.
Unless you want to discount everything Faith has said in this thread about the subject, especially the exchange with NoNukes.

There seems to be a feeling on this forum that stereotypes are ok if they are not a perceived bad stereotypes. Then again maybe some of you do not think this is a stereotype but a known fact. If you do you are wrong, plain and simple. If want to show you are not wrong, present evidence. There also seems to be a group that thinks that since they self identify as being part of the gay community that they should be the arbiter of if the "gay voice" stereotype is true or ok. That right there is a fallacy that they seem to be unwilling to grasp.I have also been challenged to present scientific evidence about the "gay voice" stereotype. Studies have shown that they "gay voice" is more or less a myth.

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To start with, the stereotypical gay voice isn’t necessarily gay.

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In a study published in 2003, Ron Smyth, a linguist at the University of Toronto, found that participants readily separated recordings of 25 diverse voices into those who sounded gay and those who sounded straight. People picked up on features of the gay stereotype voices that were higher and more melodious were more often labelled gay.

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The trouble was that these labels had little relationship with sexuality. In Smyth’s study, people correctly guessed a man’s sexuality about 60 per cent of the time, only a little better than random.

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In another small study at the University of Hawaii, both gay and straight listeners were equally likely to misclassify people as gay or straight. In fact, the straight men with so-called gay voices weren’t aware that people thought they sounded gay at all.

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It turns out that what most people perceive as a stereotypical gay voice is just a male voice that sounds more stereotypically feminine mainly higher pitched and more melodious. And that often has more to do with the voices that a person identified with as they grew up, rather than sexuality.

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Smyth and other researchers say some men, both gay and straight, develop more feminine voices because they are influenced by women when young. They might be raised by women, or just gravitate toward female role models or friends, Smyth says. But that doesn’t mean that they are gay.

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Some men with ‘gay voices’ are straight, and some men with ‘straight voices’ are gay, says Smyth. There are butch and femme gay men; there are butch and femme straight men; there are butch and femme straight women. And so on.

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Read the whole article. Unless, of course your mind is made up. There is actually quite a bit of information on this stereotype and the fact that is not in fact a "gay" voice at all.
Exposing the myth of the ‘gay voice’Now lets look at the idea being put forward here that stereotypes are ok as long as they are not "bad" stereotypes. Nope. Science doesn't support that either.

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But we're less good when it comes to "positive" stereotypes: the idea that black people are just naturally better at sports, say, or that women are more in touch with their emotions. These don't seem so pernicious, since their content, after all, is complimentary. But a fascinating new study led by Aaron Kay, a psychologist at Duke University (and brought to my attention via Eric Horowitz's ever-interesting blog Peer Reviewed By My Neurons), suggests they might be worse.

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The study centered on fake articles purporting to show evidence for three of the most time-honoured stereotypes about black people: that they're less intelligent, more prone to violence, and better at sports. (None of the study participants were black themselves.) Unsurprisingly, being exposed to this phony "evidence" made people more likely to believe the stereotypes. But the surprise was in the differences between people exposed to the negative stereotypes and the positive one.

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First, the article claiming to show superior athletic ability among black people was more likely to be unquestioningly accepted as true: it seemed to fly under people's stereotype-detecting radars. Second, the positive stereotype seemed more likely to lead people to believe that differences between blacks and whites were biological in origin.

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And third: when asked to estimate the probability that a hypothetical series of people with typically African-American names might commit a crime, people exposed to the positive stereotype rated that possibility as higher than did those exposed to a negative one. The positive stereotype ("good at athletics") apparently led to stronger negative beliefs about black people than the negative one ("prone to violence"). Positive stereotypes, the researchers write, "may be uniquely capable at reinforcing cultural stereotypes and beliefs that people explicitly eschew as racist and harmful."

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Why stereotypes are bad even when they're 'good'
There is plenty of science to support this too, if any of you are so inclined to do the research.ABE
Have any of you figured out yet that the whole OP is just an attempt by Faith to troll and express homophobic views?Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

You do realize it isn't night everywhere at the same time. We have members from around the world.

That would be valleyspeak, something completely different.Valley girl - Wikipedia

Yes very much a stereotype. Like all stereotypes there is some basis in facts and reality.