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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
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Message 167 of 591 (787482)
07-15-2016 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by ringo
07-15-2016 12:01 PM

Faith vs Evidence and the fruits to know truth by.

One concept which stops many at EvC in their tracks from accepting GOD as real is the lack of evidence for a Creator and/or Jesus Christ:Alive Today.

But the Bible says the fruits will be the evidence of the Holy Spirit.

It seems that all the peaceful, pacifist, tolerant versions of Christianity died out. Where is the spirit today?

He is one example of a religion, that had it survived, could very well be seen as evidence "of the spirit"

This version of Christianity (which is fairly well related to the early Jewish Christians of James in Jerusalem).


In 228, in what is now Iraq, a boy of 12 had a vision. He saw the world divided into a great battle of good and evil, the sons of light caught within the flesh o f a wicked earth. The vision came to him again when he was 24 and he began preaching the word of his new faith. The boy was called Mani,

From its origins in the Middle East, Manichaeism reached out to the rest of the world.
They reached the furthest corners of the earth; Christian monks were praying in the high places of Tibet as early as the sixth century, where in future years local believers would carve crosses into rocks and write divinations to “the god called Jesus Messiah”. In Europe, Manichaeism was soon stamped out by a dominant Christianity,
In Asia, however, the followers of Mani competed in a much more diverse and competitive spiritual marketplace. Manichaeism’s great coup in Asia was the conversion of the Uyghur Khanate, a massive Turkic Central Asian power that spanned from the Caspian Sea to Mongolia. Tengri Bogu, the Uyghur Khan, was converted by Iranian Manichean preachers and declared it the official religion of his empire in 762. The official memorial of his conversion praises the religion for turning the Uyghur from “blood sacrifices to a region of vegetarians, from a state which indulged in excessive killing to a nation that exhorts righteousness.”


Manicheans were a remnant of the Jerusalem church of James.

James has been blotted out for sure by Catholics and their hundreds of millions of "Protestant" imitators. Some leading scholars have noticed this overly obvious fact.


The Jesus Dynasty: The Hidden History of Jesus, His Royal Family, and the ...
By James D. Tabor
pp. 4-5

Shortly before he died, Jesus set up a provisional government with twelve regional officials, one over each of the twelve tribes or districts of Israel, and he left his brother James at the head of this fledgling government. James became the uncontested leader of the early Christian movement. This significant fact of history has been largely forgotten, or as likely, hidden. Properly understood,it changes everything we thought we knew about Jesus we though we knew about Jesus, his mission, and his message. Everyone has heard of Peter, Paul, and John - but the pivotal place of James, the beloved disciple and younger brother of Jesus, has been effectively blotted out from Christian memory.

Christianity today just isn't the same religion as the 1st century founders.

Why is James blotted out anyway?

It is simply because he held views on war, peace, meat, violence, nationalism, etc. that modern day Christians consider repugnant.

If the Spirit was real, then that wouldn't be the case.

You would at least have small pockets or a remnant (anyway).

None exist from what I have seen.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by ringo, posted 07-15-2016 12:01 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Phat, posted 07-16-2016 1:57 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Posts: 2089
Joined: 12-22-2015

Message 173 of 591 (787514)
07-16-2016 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Phat
07-16-2016 1:57 AM

Re: Faith vs Evidence and the fruits to know truth by.

There are no ancient secrets that we need to learn. There is but the simple faith of a child..

Here is what I am getting at.

Let me start with a simple google search on Augustine and just war (the whole concept was from his responce to Manicheans) Ill show the quotes in the cache but no links excapt the main one


A World History of War Crimes: From Antiquity to the Present
Michael Bryant - 2015 - ‎History
Manichean pacifism, a doctrine that still appealed to many Christians uneasy with the ... For Augustine, Joshua's war with the people of Ai was just because it was ... the Israelites were fully justified in destroying Ai insofar as they acted in strict


The Just War Tradition and the War on Terrorism - Campbellsville ...
Campbellsville University
The just war tradition rejects both the pacifist's claim that all wars are unjust .... Augustine insisted that, not only must the cause of war be just, but that the intention of .... total war more than the just war conception of strictly limited war. However, there ... Christian an avenue out of the Manichean duality of pacifism and realism.


Just War Tradition: Then and Now | Karl Johnson - Academia.edu
Augustine and Just War While the just war tradition did not begin with Augustine, ... In Reply to Faustus the Manichaean, Augustine states, “A great deal ..... end up with an overly strict just war theory or a weak pacifism that is no longer anti-war.


Jihad and Just War: A Comparative Analysis - Sound Ideas
by N Romerijn-Stout - ‎2010 - ‎Related articles
about the Christian just war and the Islamic jihad pitted against each other. .... Answer to Faustus a Manichean (Contra FaustumManichaeum) in The ..... such, Augustine based his theories on violence and just war on a combination of Roman legal tradition, Roman and Judaeo-Christian thought, and early Christian pacifism.


Just War - Australian Catholic Social Justice Council
the Church's earlier strict pacifist views after the conversion of the Emperor Constantine .... Augustine's thinking on just war underwent major changes. ..... Manichaean lens of moral absolutes, of Good versus Evil, with the demonizing of.


Library : The Pacifist and the Bible | Catholic Culture
The Pacifist and the Bible This essay examines pacifism and its history. ... A just war under modern conditions is declared to be impossible. .... illustrated by extreme examples which are not strictly true as they stand, nor meant to be. ..... St. Augustine refutes at great length the absolute pacifism of the Manichean heretics who ...

Then from my main site.


But Manicheans rarely focused on evil, though their legends sometimes seem closer to Jack Kirby comic books than anything else, with their stories of heroic battles, incestuous copulation, and bizarre bad guys. In practice, the faith was a pacifist and ascetic one, sometimes to the point of extremes...
During its travels across Asia, Manichaeism seems to have picked up many Buddhist ideas, and to have shed some of the harsh dualism and Gnosticism that made the faith famous. But followers distinguished themselves from their religious rivals by their vegetarianism, far more strictly practiced than among Buddhists, their refusal to shave their heads like Buddhists, their veneration of Mani and Jesus, and the careful copying of their scriptures, to the extent that texts “separated by four centuries and the whole of the Eurasian landmass”, are virtually identical.

Augustine was defending wholesale genocide and it seems to be (something like) the mark of what makes modern Christianity. Rumsfeld sent Bush electronic postcards featuring Psalms quotes that centered around martial themes and "God". Hillary Clinton says Psalms is "comforting".

Would the "Holy Spirit" agree with today's Christians that Psalms 151 was the God that incarnated Jesus?

Mani, Marcion, and the Jewish Christians seemed to hold a differing view.

Augustine flipped through the Old Testament to defend his view.

Mani surely used the Book of Enoch, but otherwise seemed to reject the Old Testament (the precedent was already set by the Elkesaite Jewish-Christian community his parents were in and then he was born into).

The Christians of the early centuries seemed perfectly willing to call the Old Testament God evil. Perhaps it was their proximity to Jewish Christian sects associated with James that gave them their inspiration and/or open mind toward the important issues, while modern Christians have nothing but the shackles of the Roman Catholics, Henry VIII, and Martin Luther as their inspiration.

Can I invoke the holy spirit and say that the absence of the strictly peaceful Manicheans (and others) today is evidence that the Holy Spirit is simply absent from reality? (Manichean is a substantive adjective today denoting harsh black and white views , so peacefulness is just plain "dirty" in modern culture)

Always was?

I'm just asking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Phat, posted 07-16-2016 1:57 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by NoNukes, posted 07-16-2016 4:21 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

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