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Author | Topic: The Marketing Of Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stile Member Posts: 4010 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Who wants a Stile ramble? Here it comes! I have a few things to say about such a statement. First, I don't think things are so streamlined. I think there's a plethora of reasons why people believe, and why they don't... ranging from 'just human nature' to 'in-depth reflection.' Because of that, I think it's a disservice to lump everything together as "Believers are ..." or "Non-believers are ..." There are just too many different people who are believers or non-believers for too many different reasons to think they are all like you, or me, or anyone specific. So, I will take your statement more to say: quote: Reasons such as this: All those reasons (and more, I'm sure) can be a reason why someone is a believer or a non-believer. What I think you're getting at is the "in depth reflection" area of reasons. But I wouldn't use the same wording you used. I'd describe it more like this: Believers preferring a Father Figure or Protector or Rich Uncle The Answer they hold onto could be many different things (and possibly multiple things) Non-Believers preferring to grow up and leave the nest Perhaps this is true for some non-believers. -I would word it more that non-believers seem to be okay not having all the answers, and accepting the world however it may be. Non-believers may want many things, but they are willing to accept that things just aren't that way. Now, which one is Right and which is Wrong? In the sense of morality... I don't think it matters. What about the sense of The Way Things Are, though? What about truth and reality and accurate descriptions of the universe? Well, you can see this sort of thing in action in some Christian vs. Atheist debates: The Christian will fight dearly that something MUST be a certain way (God exists, Flood occurred, Biblical Creation, Resurrection, Apostles are real, Jesus exists...) The Atheist isn't defending another, specific concept... they're defending "whatever answer happens to seem more plausible with what we're able to see." That is, the Atheist would AGREE with the Christian, if everything we saw, felt, touched... led in the direction of what the Christian described. But there doesn't seem to ever be a way the Christian would agree with the Atheist. It MUST be the Christian's way... for one reason or another. But, of course, people are people. And some Atheists will cling to an idea themselves... and say things MUST be their way for reasons other than the evidence leaning in that direction. But there's always some Atheists willing to accept that the Christian is right if things would only show that the Christian was, indeed, right. Are their Christians willing to do this? I think that's the difference you're talking about. Some Atheists are willing to denounce atheism and fight for anything else at all as long as reality supports the position. Maybe it means they're not an Atheist... they don't really care. The issue is... it's not about Believers vs. Non-Believers. It's about Believers vs. Reality-Followers. It just so happens that, right now, the evidence seems to imply that Reality-Followers should be Non-Believers.
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Stile Member Posts: 4010 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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I think I may have overstepped things here for the sake of some dramatics. One could (rightfully) argue that both are attempting to "follow reality." The measure of which is doing it better/right is up to the individual.
I would say it's not so much the quest for further evidence and answers is the answer for others... but simply the quest to find out what ever actually is the truth. Maybe they'll end up in the same place, maybe not. One side puts the belief above all else, even though there's a possibility the belief could be wrong (simply because we, as humans, don't know everything). The other side puts being "part of reality" above all else, even though there's a possibility we will never get to actually know. And, really, there are pros can cons to both sides. That is, most believers put some religious belief above all else (God exists? Ultimate Justice? ...) when talking about the fabric of reality. On the other hand, most evidence-followers put some evidentially-supported-proposition forward when talking about the fabric of reality. Just for fun, here's an off-the-top-of-my-head go at pros and cons for each "side" (even though we all use both "sides" for different things...): Believers - Holding a certain Idea or Answer above all else Cons Evidence-Followers - Taking whatever idea that the evidence points towards Cons I think it's helpful to understand the differences.. the pros and the cons. Edited by Stile, : Added some bolding to make it easier to read
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Stile Member Posts: 4010 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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There are also many who believe the evidence led them to their Flat-Earth beliefs. Perhaps 'the evidence' led you to your Christian beliefs.
Exactly. If your beliefs were based on the evidence... then you wouldn't be able to say such a thing. Therefore, the evidence you saw led you to your Christian beliefs, but your Christian beliefs are actually based on something else.
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Stile Member Posts: 4010 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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But that's not a good thing. If God requires you to believe in Him in order to "get the payoff" then that God isn't worthy of being respected and should be educated for His immaturity. If God really is good, then He wouldn't care if you believe in Him or not. He would only care about how good you are (and try to be). That's the good part of a good God. You don't have to worry about if your gamble is going to pay off. You don't have to worry if you're playing the game right. The plan is simple: be good. Whether you're doing that or not is (generally) easy to discover: are the people you're affecting happy by the way you interact with them? Be good. If there's a good God - He'll respect that and be happy with you.
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Stile Member Posts: 4010 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Those are definitely two of the biggies that ended religion's usefulness with me. They are also two of the biggies that no religiously-minded person seems to have sufficient answers for, as well (as judged by me.)
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