As I have said before, there have been many Christians at this forum who knew lots of scripture yet who did not seem to have love. God is love. I pray that we all receive a bigger dose of this. Hate is itself a cancer. The Holy Spirit is an effective antidote.
The snake oil doesn't seem to be working on the Christians you mentioned. So how is it "effective"?
I didn't say that the warranty is hidden. I said that it isn't advertised by the marketers. They sell the "joy" that you get from Christianity, the freedom from earthly worries, etc. They don't tend to sell the consequences of your actions. The worst of them sell a get-out-of-hell-free card that guarantees God's forgiveness for whatever you do. That's hardly an incentive for responsible behaviour.
Logically I dont see God micromanaging the weather based upon the sins of America...or any other nation, for that matter.
Tell that to Pharaoh's army at the bottom of the Red Sea.
Some say that there are lost people and "found" people and that the saved ones have come to a knowledge of Gods truth that the lost people had nary a clue about. If you believe that, the baptism gives you knowledge.
So I have to ask you for the umpteenth time: Why is it that the people who claim to be "found" often don't have the first clue about anything?
A man could have all the knowledge of the universe, but if he never applied it towards any profitable end, it would be useless.
That's what I'm saying. You can be baptized till the cows come home but if you don't do something useful, like making sandwiches for the hungry, what's the point?
Perhaps "more" is more of a conscience...more of a desire to help others...more insight into how others think and feel...empathy, perhaps.
Again, what good is more conscience, more desire to help, more insight, more empathy unless you use it?
The "leaving the nest analogy" is about growing up. Even if the whole world is "His nest", you can't deny that God wants us to grow up, can you?
And remember that when the Bible was written, extended families were the norm. Grown-up children didn't "leave the nest" in the sense that they moved out of their father's house - but they were expected to grow up, marry and bring their spouses into the nest.
Can you with reason prove that you can reason your way to truth ? I don't think you can do so without circular reasoning.
It's more geodesic than circular; it's a web. On a circle, you keep passing the same point over and over again - but you can navigate the logic on a web by coming at a point from different directions on different paths.
I see no obvious reason why a clever theologian could not utilize the very same procedure to sidestep logical contradictions related to theology. ie. "Well, its a geodesic situation here, you know ?"
The obvious reason is that theologians come to so many different conclusions. If Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Raelians, etc. were using that procedure, then they would all be inter-connected. Yet theologians seem to concentrate on how disconnected their conclusions are from the "wrong" conclusions.
But as jar points out, unless there's some evidence to connect your conclusions to reality, it's just "turtles all the way down" - i.e. it's just unsupported logic; it's reasoning (whether sound or not) based on untested premises. A web of logic would be no better than a circle, unless it was supported at some of its points by evidence.