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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 21 of 591 (780896)
03-26-2016 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
03-26-2016 12:13 PM


Re: Christianity 101
Phat writes:

Much of my Christianity has been shaped by the 30 year collection of inter-office memos penned by Paul and perhaps others.


So the marketing works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 03-26-2016 12:13 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 03-26-2016 12:29 PM ringo has responded
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 09-28-2016 12:25 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 24 of 591 (780899)
03-26-2016 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
03-26-2016 12:29 PM


Re: Christianity 101
Phat writes:

The question remains: What is the product?


As you said, your Christianity. You might as well have said, "Much of my shopping habits has been shaped by TV commercials."

Phat writes:

Does it really cure warts?


It doesn't matter whether it works or not as long as you keep buying it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 03-26-2016 12:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 50 of 591 (780977)
03-29-2016 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
03-29-2016 8:16 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:

As I have said before, there have been many Christians at this forum who knew lots of scripture yet who did not seem to have love. God is love. I pray that we all receive a bigger dose of this. Hate is itself a cancer. The Holy Spirit is an effective antidote.


The snake oil doesn't seem to be working on the Christians you mentioned. So how is it "effective"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 8:16 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 56 of 591 (780987)
03-29-2016 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
03-29-2016 1:15 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
Phat writes:

Why is it that people think God causes tragedies?


Because He's advertised as, "the creator of all that is."

When General Motors brags about their warranty, they don't list the dozens of things that it doesn't cover. God's commercials don't list the negatives either.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:46 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 78 of 591 (781046)
03-30-2016 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Phat
03-29-2016 1:46 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
Phat writes:

Deuteronomy 30:1-20 offers up the full warrenty.


I didn't say that the warranty is hidden. I said that it isn't advertised by the marketers. They sell the "joy" that you get from Christianity, the freedom from earthly worries, etc. They don't tend to sell the consequences of your actions. The worst of them sell a get-out-of-hell-free card that guarantees God's forgiveness for whatever you do. That's hardly an incentive for responsible behaviour.

Phat writes:

Logically I dont see God micromanaging the weather based upon the sins of America...or any other nation, for that matter.


Tell that to Pharaoh's army at the bottom of the Red Sea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 105 of 591 (781154)
04-01-2016 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Phat
04-01-2016 11:52 AM


Re: What is the work necessary?
Phat writes:

Ringos infamous spare change routine comes to mind. What eternal good does it do simply to hand a guy a buck every time you see him?


None. Eternity is over-rated.

Phat writes:

It does little good to feed a guy if that's all you do for him.


I've had pastors who said that it does no good to feed the body unless you feed the soul too. The problem with that philosophy is that when the body is hungry, the soul most likely isn't listening.

Of course the other side to it is that feeding his body is good for your soul.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Phat, posted 04-01-2016 11:52 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 04-02-2016 6:30 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 115 of 591 (781228)
04-02-2016 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Phat
04-02-2016 6:30 AM


Re: What is the work necessary?
Phat writes:

...note also that John claims that Jesus will ...baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Not just simply give you a sandwich and tell you to have a nice day...


The question is: What is the baptism for? Is it an end in itself? Or is it intended to help you make better sandwiches?

Phat writes:

The original question was whether a Christian should do more than simply feed people.


I have never suggested that a Christian shouldn't do "more". What exactly do you think IS "more"?

Phat writes:

I would argue that this scripture supports the idea that people don't simply need bread.


That sounds like step one in the get-out-of-hell-free marketing strategy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 04-02-2016 6:30 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 04-03-2016 8:57 AM ringo has responded
 Message 117 by jar, posted 04-03-2016 9:55 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 118 of 591 (781280)
04-03-2016 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
04-03-2016 8:57 AM


Re: What is the work necessary?
Phat writes:

Some say that there are lost people and "found" people and that the saved ones have come to a knowledge of Gods truth that the lost people had nary a clue about. If you believe that, the baptism gives you knowledge.


So I have to ask you for the umpteenth time: Why is it that the people who claim to be "found" often don't have the first clue about anything?

Phat writes:

A man could have all the knowledge of the universe, but if he never applied it towards any profitable end, it would be useless.


That's what I'm saying. You can be baptized till the cows come home but if you don't do something useful, like making sandwiches for the hungry, what's the point?

Phat writes:

Perhaps "more" is more of a conscience...more of a desire to help others...more insight into how others think and feel...empathy, perhaps.


Again, what good is more conscience, more desire to help, more insight, more empathy unless you use it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 04-03-2016 8:57 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Phat, posted 04-03-2016 2:37 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 130 of 591 (781360)
04-04-2016 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by jaywill
04-04-2016 10:14 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
jaywill writes:

But after His resurrection there were only 120 followers in the upper room ready to follow Him in His next move. Where were the thousands who were fed and healed ?


That's a heck of a big room already. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to think that everybody who "cared enough" had to be jammed into one room?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jaywill, posted 04-04-2016 10:14 AM jaywill has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 1:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 132 of 591 (781364)
04-04-2016 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Faith
04-04-2016 12:09 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Faith writes:

Jaywill wasn't using the word "needs" for God as we would use it for people....


Indeed. As used by fundamentalists, God's "needs" are a euphemism for what He demands of us, or else. It's what we need to do to avoid eternal torment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 12:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 12:40 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 140 of 591 (781576)
04-05-2016 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Phat
04-04-2016 1:58 PM


Re: Upper Room
Phat writes:

That was just the leadership team.


I was responding to jaywill, who said in Message 126:
quote:
Jesus had only 120 who cared enough to await the next stage in God's move on the earth.

He was the one who implied that it was "everybody", not me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 1:58 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 04-06-2016 11:52 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 144 of 591 (781674)
04-06-2016 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Phat
04-06-2016 11:52 AM


Re: Who Cares? Does It Matter?
Phat writes:

Some say that God Himself could care less about us. Once he gave us wisdom and life, he expected us to grow up and leave the nest.


Wanting His children to grow up does not imply that He doesn't care about them.

Phat writes:

Others believe that the whole world is His nest.


That's a misuse of the analogy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 04-06-2016 11:52 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 04-06-2016 2:33 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 152 of 591 (781759)
04-07-2016 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by Phat
04-06-2016 2:33 PM


Re: Who Cares? Does It Matter?
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

That's a misuse of the analogy.


How so?

The "leaving the nest analogy" is about growing up. Even if the whole world is "His nest", you can't deny that God wants us to grow up, can you?

And remember that when the Bible was written, extended families were the norm. Grown-up children didn't "leave the nest" in the sense that they moved out of their father's house - but they were expected to grow up, marry and bring their spouses into the nest.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 04-06-2016 2:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 156 of 591 (782108)
04-16-2016 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by jaywill
04-15-2016 5:53 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
jaywill writes:

Can you with reason prove that you can reason your way to truth ?
I don't think you can do so without circular reasoning.


It's more geodesic than circular; it's a web. On a circle, you keep passing the same point over and over again - but you can navigate the logic on a web by coming at a point from different directions on different paths.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jaywill, posted 04-15-2016 5:53 PM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 04-16-2016 1:18 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 158 by jaywill, posted 04-16-2016 3:54 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 159 of 591 (782127)
04-17-2016 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by jaywill
04-16-2016 3:54 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
jaywill writes:

It is not a geometry problem.


You're the one who called it a circle.

jaywill writes:

I see no obvious reason why a clever theologian could not utilize the very same procedure to sidestep logical contradictions related to theology. ie. "Well, its a geodesic situation here, you know ?"


The obvious reason is that theologians come to so many different conclusions. If Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Raelians, etc. were using that procedure, then they would all be inter-connected. Yet theologians seem to concentrate on how disconnected their conclusions are from the "wrong" conclusions.

But as jar points out, unless there's some evidence to connect your conclusions to reality, it's just "turtles all the way down" - i.e. it's just unsupported logic; it's reasoning (whether sound or not) based on untested premises. A web of logic would be no better than a circle, unless it was supported at some of its points by evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by jaywill, posted 04-16-2016 3:54 PM jaywill has not yet responded

  
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