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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 591 (781015)
03-29-2016 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
03-28-2016 5:32 PM


Re: God Unplugged
What is the difference between a man who believes in God yet admits he is likely wrong regarding his understanding, and an agnostic?

In either case both answers are at least honest and humble. I guess it depends. What I like to ask in my mind is: what is the cause for the belief in the first place? Whenever somebody believes something to be true, something must first precede that belief -- a precipitating reason for entertaining the notion at all.

For an agnostic, most are admittedly indifferent. It could be true, it could also not be true. Maybe both seem equally probable and improbable. But it seems to me the difference is that one believes and the other is abstaining until there is a compelling reason to believe.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 03-28-2016 5:32 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 591 (781016)
03-29-2016 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
03-29-2016 1:15 PM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
Why is it that people think God causes tragedies? Do you personally believe that He does? Why or why not?

Why do people think God creates miracles? People in a life-threatening situation who have survived are quick to praise God for saving them... but what of the countless people who have prayed to God to spare them, and yet they have still met painful, tragic ends? And what of the repentless people who have survived without asking for it?

What of young children born with some horrific genetic abnormality; something like Harlequin babies. How many prayers does it take to restore them to health? The answer is 0, because it's never been done.

We can deduce with 100% accuracy that God does NOT honor all prayers. Would you agree? So it seems that it's all a crap shoot either way. And what does that tell you about God? It either tells you that he is selective or.... that he's simply not there and that his existence is nothing more than a comforting thought that you would prefer to be real, but in fact is not. On some level you must be able to recognize that God is something you are choosing to believe versus something self-evident otherwise you wouldn't even ask these questions. So surely you must be wrestling with these ideas already. You're just looking for compelling reasons to continue to believe in things you'd prefer to be true because your faith is close to running on fumes at this point.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-29-2016 1:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 03-30-2016 2:21 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 68 of 591 (781017)
03-29-2016 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
03-29-2016 3:38 PM


Re: Repent Or Perish
If judgment begins with the Church, it's because the Church has committed sins, and therefore repentance has to begin with the Church too. As the prophet Daniel confessed the sins of Israel as if he himself had committed them all, that attitude on the part of believers today would go a long way toward slowing down God's judgment.

What's the point of "slowing down God's judgment" if the outcome is already written in stone? The bible is the ultimate spoiler alert since you know the ending before it comes... and if you believe the bible to be authentic, then why not just let things come to pass as they were preordained to and worry about your walk with God?

Even if Cruz became President, who is the only current contender who might be expected to do it, I rather doubt he'd be able to call for such a day given the general attitude of the nation toward religion.

Even if he did, so what? Would it matter? People are responsible for themselves. Sin and immorality don't suddenly vanish just because the POTUS makes a "call to prayer."

It's the NATIONAL level sins that call down judgment on a nation

Which is hilarious considering the bible discusses how we should not be held liable for the Sins of the Father. And then in other versus it says we are expected to pay for the Sins of the Father. With such inconsistency, it calls the whole thing in to question.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 03-29-2016 3:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 03-30-2016 1:21 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 03-30-2016 7:06 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 591 (781022)
03-30-2016 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
03-30-2016 1:21 AM


Re: Repent Or Perish
Because its not MY walk

Whose walk is it then?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 03-30-2016 1:21 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 591 (781025)
03-30-2016 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
03-30-2016 2:21 AM


Re: Hurricane Yahweh
Not Quite
My faith remains strong

I'm asking for you to flesh out some of your ideas because I don't quite know what you mean


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 03-30-2016 2:21 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 04-02-2016 8:07 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 121 of 591 (781316)
04-04-2016 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Faith
04-01-2016 5:37 PM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Feed people, sure, but what people need most is salvation and taking care of the body while ignoring that primary need is a big mistake.

You're never going to bring people to salvation by not demonstrating the love of God first. Jesus fed the masses with fish and loaves of bread without demanding their acceptance to his sacrificial offering of salvation. He spent 3 years doing all kinds of good works before offering himself up.

That's what these street preaching bible thumpers just don't get. They place the cart before the horse when they think saying a few verses to strangers is suddenly going to make them fall to their knees and beg for mercy from God. Not gonna happen. People become convicted when they see an upright life devoted to selflessness. That's what changes hearts and minds.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Faith, posted 04-01-2016 5:37 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 2:11 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 126 by jaywill, posted 04-04-2016 10:14 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 591 (781329)
04-04-2016 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
04-04-2016 2:11 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
You have the most amazing ability to read stuff into my posts that simply is not there, and impute whole scenarios to me that didn't cross my mind. I did not say DON'T FEED THEM for pete's sake. I was addressing the common problem of attempts to help people that LEAVE OUT the gospel. You invented the whole scenario of the street preacher with the wrong attitude.

I'm reading between the lines from what I quoted you saying and what I've extrapolated all these years from reading your posts. People recoil from gifts that have a silver lining and an ulterior motive behind it. This is why street preachers are so fantastically ineffective versus the people who witness in more subtle ways.

Hint: You have the mentality of the street preacher, Blind Pharisee

You don't have a clue, I wish you'd just stop responding to my posts.

What a strange thing for me to do on a public forum...


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 2:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 3:47 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 591 (781333)
04-04-2016 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
04-04-2016 3:47 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
OK you are going to continue with the personal insults so I'll start ignoring you. YOu should have been suspended half a dozen times by now for your personal attacks.

What a martyr! This will be my only response to this off-topic diatribe. I'm challenging you based on what you were quoted as saying. I'm sorry that you cannot handle any amount of criticism, but that's not a failing on my part. Being critical isn't the same as being persecuted, ma'am.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 3:47 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 04-04-2016 10:17 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 139 of 591 (781534)
04-05-2016 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by jaywill
04-04-2016 10:14 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
Your comment seems to assume that to tell people of the Redemption and Justification and Jesus being their Lord, Friend, and Savior is not an expression of love towards them.

No, not at all. I am simply pointing out that it is less effective than simply helping people with no strings attached.

But after His resurrection there were only 120 followers in the upper room ready to follow Him in His next move. Where were the thousands who were fed and healed ?

It wasn't documented so we cannot know.

Sure, plenty got what they needed that day and disappeared back into society. Jesus had only 120 who cared enough to await the next stage in God's move on the earth.

Well, you are assuming that only 120 received the message. Even if they didn't receive it, so what? He fed them in accordance with his will and with the full knowledge of who would respond or not.

Your concept is not without merit in practicality. But it may be overly "man centered" as if the only need is that of man. What about the need of God?

You don't start a conversation about the Love of God by telling people what God, a perfect being, needs. Jesus opens the door to discuss such things at a later time by first addressing their physical needs and by demonstrating what the love of God looks like.

These consecrated men ministered to the Lord Jesus being concerned for what God's need was. Surely people have needs. But God has His need too. And these men were calibrated right, setting aside time to ascertain what God's need was.

And those were already believers... That was my point about placing the cart before the horse. Let the horse lead the cart, not the cart leading the horse... the rest will fall in to place.

The 10,000 some fed and healed by Jesus may not have included that many people so concerned. Human nature is very self centered. And we often want God not to go away too far, because we may need Him again. But in the meantime we are nearly completely centered on ourselves.

And if that is man's nature, whose fault is that? Do you blame the created being or the one who created it?

And some, as you say, minister practical help in their outreach to manifest the love of Christ. There is room for both outreach in preaching and the service of practical helps. There is no need to pit one against the other.

I'm not pitting them against each other, I am saying they should go hand in hand.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jaywill, posted 04-04-2016 10:14 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by jaywill, posted 04-06-2016 9:58 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 591 (781896)
04-09-2016 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by jaywill
04-06-2016 9:58 AM


Re: Spiritual Gifts
I would tell the thoughtful sinner that though the paradox of man's sinful condition is perhaps unsolvable in a total philosophical sense, they nonetheless may have the peace of Christ which surpasses every man's understanding.

The point is that it is circular logic. God is saving you from something he himself imparted and set up. That's like a firefighter who is secretly an arsonist who sets your house on fire just so that he can create for himself the opportunity to rescue you from the condition that he caused in the first place.

Does not having the answer to that question interfere with wanting to believe in the Son of God ? Do you doubt that you have sinned or that others have sinned against you, because you're not clear who to ultimately blame for those sins?

No, it's just that it's not relevant to whomever I sinned against or sinned against me. It is relevant when questioning the veracity of God's existence in the context of the bible.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by jaywill, posted 04-06-2016 9:58 AM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by jaywill, posted 04-15-2016 5:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 160 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-18-2016 11:58 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 154 of 591 (781897)
04-09-2016 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Faith
04-06-2016 3:55 PM


Re: What Is Literal?
I don't know what the cut-off point is -- that is, how far you can go with not believing parts of it -- but I think it's risky to pick and choose what parts of the Bible you believe to be true as written.

You mean like excluding the verses of the bible that state that women in church must not speak and must have their heads covered (like Muslims)? Yeah, I can see how that kind of cherry-picking could be annoying.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Faith, posted 04-06-2016 3:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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