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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 174 of 591 (787519)
07-16-2016 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by LamarkNewAge
07-16-2016 12:55 PM


Re: Faith vs Evidence and the fruits to know truth by.
Can I invoke the holy spirit and say that the absence of the strictly peaceful Manicheans (and others) today is evidence that the Holy Spirit is simply absent from reality?

You could use the same line of reasoning to say that the absence of the ancient Greeks spelled the end of democratic thinking in the world.

No, this reasoning is bad. Perhaps you should not judge all Christians by watching what fundies do. Those folks are actually a minority of all Christians.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-16-2016 12:55 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 186 of 591 (788649)
08-03-2016 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Thugpreacha
08-02-2016 7:24 PM


Re: prayer and fasting.
Because prayer and fasting denies the flesh and willfully feeds the Spirit living within us. Jesus showed us examples of this practice

Jesus did recommend prayer and fasting. But did Jesus ever indicate that doing so helped feed the poor or shelter the homeless? No. He told us that doing so was our own responsibility. You aren't suppose to simply pray and fast in order to get a mystical visit to folks in prison, you are supposed to take your butt to the big house.

Jesus commanded us to do those things in unambiguous terms. Prayer and fasting works on you as a person. But it does not fill someone else's hungry belly.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-02-2016 7:24 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by jar, posted 08-03-2016 8:55 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 191 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-07-2016 4:53 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 591 (789756)
08-18-2016 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Thugpreacha
08-18-2016 8:13 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
the poor we will always have with us. The hungry too.

Jesus did say something like that, but it was not over prayer versus feeding the hungry.

Does God expect us to skip prayer simply to feed one more person? They will hunger again unless we feed them spiritual food. Yet if we fail to pray, we have failed to attend company meetings all in the interest of feeding one more of the masses

Nobody is telling you to skip corporate meetings or prayer. Surely you don't do those things 168 hours per week.

Edited by NoNukes, : or vs are.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-18-2016 8:13 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 227 of 591 (789982)
08-23-2016 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Thugpreacha
08-23-2016 3:35 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
My point of course is that Jesus prayed. You seem to minimize the importance of prayer. Some believe that prayer gets more done in certain situations than can be done through lifting that barge and toting that bale.

Jesus prayed and you should too. If you read about the instances in which Jesus prayed, you will note that the primary change that occurred from prayer was on the person doing the praying. I cannot recall any instances where Jesus prayed rather than toting the bale. But I can remember instances where Jesus prayed before working miracles where he fed or healed folks.

Jesus works through people on earth. If a barge needs to be toted, Christians best get busy.

The link below is to someone's list of the times Jesus is described as praying:

http://jesusalive.cc/ques204.htm


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-23-2016 3:35 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 234 of 591 (790011)
08-23-2016 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Pressie
08-23-2016 9:11 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
This doesn't make any sense. Isn't Jesus supposed to be God?

The confusion about the divinity of Jesus is a confusion largely created by Trinitarianism. Whether or not Trinity doctrine is correct, the doctrine seems to create more confusion than it ever solves. In my opinion, verses like the one jar cited argue strongly against that doctrine.

Jesus said that God was his Father and that his Father had given him the keys. That seems simple enough to me.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Pressie, posted 08-23-2016 9:11 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 08-23-2016 1:32 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 292 of 591 (792039)
10-01-2016 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by jar
09-30-2016 9:40 PM


Re: Inter-Office-Memos
There was a thread GDR on what made a true Christian and the result was the only possible way to tell a true Christian was to ask them if they were a Christian.

Your statement is a jar-centric summary of that thread. You did indeed reach that conclusion, but I'm not sure you managed to convince the other participants that your reasoning was correct. There were in fact, a number of proposed definitions given in that thread.

It is true that your definition does yield an easy answer and that some of the other given definitions were not easy to apply or to interpret. But that ease and simplicity is not a guarantee that your definition is correct.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by jar, posted 09-30-2016 9:40 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by jar, posted 10-01-2016 8:06 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 298 of 591 (792049)
10-01-2016 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by jar
10-01-2016 8:06 AM


Re: Inter-Office-Memos
That is great support for the very point I have been making. There was not just a number of different proposed definitions but rather no real agreement as to any single definition.

There is no complete agreement on what constitutes beauty either. That does not mean that any of us are going to accept the other person's definition or that we are going to accept someone else telling us that they are beautiful.

'm not so sure my response is jar centric as much as simply realistic. Faith will tell you that she is a Christian but the Pope is the anti-christ. The Pope will tell you that he is a Christian. GDR will tell you that he is a Christian yet also say that I am not a Christian. I believe they all all Christians and I will tell you that I am a Christian.

One or more of those purported definitions is simply wrong. Besides that, I don't know what would be more 'jar centric' than a statement of what you believe. I accept that a useful definition is hard to pin down. But if Christian simply means a person who makes the claim to be Christian, then there isn't much use for the term.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by jar, posted 10-01-2016 8:06 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by jar, posted 10-01-2016 7:50 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 311 of 591 (792068)
10-02-2016 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by Tangle
10-02-2016 3:15 PM


Re: repeating old material
I admit that I leapt to the assumption that you believed the Catholic version which obliges you to also believe that only the one church can remit sins which excludes the majority of the world's population from a pleasant afterlife.

Just to be clear, the word "catholic" in the Niocene Creed is distinct from the term "Catholic" which refers to the Catholic church. "catholic" lower case is generally translated to mean a universal Christian Church composed of all believers. "Catholic" upper case refers to the Roman Catholic Church.

There is only one Niocene Creed. If you can distinguish jar's beliefs or any other protestants from being in accordance with the Niocene creed, being non-Church of Rome really is irrelevant.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2016 3:15 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2016 4:40 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 313 of 591 (792070)
10-02-2016 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by Tangle
10-02-2016 4:40 PM


Re: repeating old material
The second is the one I assumed.

Right. But as I pointed out, that creed does not put the Catholic Church as the authority for remission of sins.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2016 4:40 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by Tangle, posted 10-03-2016 2:44 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 349 of 591 (792132)
10-05-2016 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by GDR
10-03-2016 7:30 PM


Re: repeating old material
First off resurrection was not a term that people would use for what happened to Lazarus.

Which people refuse to call what happened to Lazarus a resurrection?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by GDR, posted 10-03-2016 7:30 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by GDR, posted 10-06-2016 10:57 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 384 of 591 (792601)
10-11-2016 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by ringo
10-11-2016 11:48 AM


Re: Objectivity and Subjectivity
I'm the first one to say that you can't be objective all by yourself - i.e. objectivity requires consensus.

Please explain. My initial impression is that objectivity is independent of how many people agree, and that even if the majority of folks hold an opinion, a single person understanding to the contrary, if he reaches that position using an appropriate means, may well be objective all by himself.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by ringo, posted 10-11-2016 11:48 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by Pressie, posted 10-12-2016 9:09 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 396 by ringo, posted 10-12-2016 12:06 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 397 of 591 (792646)
10-12-2016 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by ringo
10-12-2016 12:06 PM


Re: Objectivity and Subjectivity
Human beings can set their biases aside in at least limited circumstances, and can verify through careful experiment and observation that they are correct. The theory of gravitation did not fail to be objective before consensus formed.

Consensus occurs when most folks accept a result. Objectivity exists even when your peers are fools.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by ringo, posted 10-12-2016 12:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by ringo, posted 10-13-2016 11:44 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 399 of 591 (792716)
10-13-2016 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by ringo
10-13-2016 11:44 AM


Re: Objectivity and Subjectivity
Don't confuse "objective" with "true". Objectivity is about the process, not the result.

I'm not confusing the two. For one thing, a theory are not true in any real sense anyway. Secondly, do you believe you can make a case that Einstein's theory of gravitation was non objective at the time when he had not convinced his peers to accept it? If not then you are just blowing smoke.

It can but it seldom does. The fools are more likely to be the lone wolves.

So you assert. But objective, in science at least, is a result of the process and methodology for achieving a result. Consensus comes after the process has worked.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by ringo, posted 10-13-2016 11:44 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by ringo, posted 10-13-2016 12:59 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 474 of 591 (814382)
07-08-2017 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 472 by ringo
07-07-2017 11:55 AM


Re: God Unplugged
God doomed every subsequent generation of humans to atone for Adam and Eve's "sin".

Humans and every other animal too if you let some people tell it.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by ringo, posted 07-07-2017 11:55 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 476 by Pressie, posted 10-13-2017 6:54 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 535 of 591 (824974)
12-05-2017 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by kbertsche
12-05-2017 5:55 PM


Re: Believe vs. Non-Belief
Really? Many people who believed in a round earth, but claim to have switched to a belief in a flat earth on the basis of evidence?

That is not quite what he claimed. He never said that they switched beliefs, but rather than the evidence suggested to some folks that the earth was flat. Quite frankly, I think that such a claim is very easy to believe. If your experiments don't cover much distance, ordinary tooling around with Euclidean geometry suggests a flat earth.

In a previous discussion, we talked about early attempts to conduct the Bedford Level experiment that appeared to give results consistent with a flat earth and not a spherical one. The errors in those experiments have since been identified. However, someone at the time might well have taken those experiments as evidence for a flat earth.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by kbertsche, posted 12-05-2017 5:55 PM kbertsche has not yet responded

  
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