The Marketing Of Christianity

How does Faiths God differ from the God of the Old Testament...say in Ezekiel 9-10.

Isnt that the same reasoning that a lot of the modern day Christians seek? Exclude ourselves from the Pagan idolaters who worship football, cars, money, and internet porn. exclude and isolate themselves in the walls of the church buildings and build a wall between us and the rest of the world?

Because its not MY walk

Not QuiteMy faith remains strong

For one thing Paul got knocked off of his horse and flipped a 180 regarding his opinion towards Christians. For a devout Jew who had always believed in the Creator of all seen and unseen, to even mention Jesus as anything more than human would itself be idolatry, would it not?
Besides...if an unseen voice told me that it was jesus whom I was persecuting, I would check my water supply to make sure it had no alcohol in it..then be forced to identify the source of the voice...God or satan. What other options would Paul have? True. Are you saying that God does not favor any one of us any more than He favors a random rabbit in the woods? I believe what John 3:16 says. He sent His son. Now...for the record, I have no problem with Jesus being human while on earth. I also have no problem with supernatural events happening from time to time...though its not as if we can conjure up miracles on demand. Perhaps you are never satisfied with any answer without asking more and more questions. Lets say you had a vivid dream whereby God spoke to you...or rather a voice..much the same as Saul allegedly heard. Many Christians would take that as an answer and a confirmation...especially if the voice suggested you do something that you intuitively felt you needed to do anyway. Knowing you, you wouldn't be satisfied--ever---with a final answer. you would continually ask more and more questions. Perhaps this is how God relates to you---through logic, reason, and endless questions. Do you have any reason to doubt that the "spiritual events" were genuine?

I have never read the contradictory versions...do you have a link to them? Are you saying that "The Bible" is different from "John"? Who wrote the part that supports your argument? For one thing, without man, there would not even be a Bible. Of course humans are biased towards humans...but is there any evidence that the Creator of All Seen & Unseen has no partiality towards humanity? Do you have any more reason to think the tales were fabricated than you do that the tales were genuine? Why or why not?

It depends on whom you ask. There is far from a majority agreement in this area. The International Bible Society has this statement:

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Many people contributed to the writing of the Bible. In fact, the Bible is a diverse collection of writings from about 40 main contributors30 in the Old Testament and 10 in the New Testament.
Some books are actually collections of writings from several authors, not just one. For example, while many people think of David when they think of the book of Psalms, there are individual psalms attributed to Moses, Asaph, a man named Ethan, and the sons of Korah.

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Thus, people may not *know* with 100% accuracy who wrote what, yet we are far from clueless in this area. I believe that there are many critics out with an agenda to destroy the importance of the Bible and who thus spread rumors that Jesus is but a myth,Numerous authors and redactors had hidden or ulterior motives to market a wholesale con or to discredit Judaism or to destroy faith in the books...etc etc etc. So I disagree with your assessment. How about cancer cells? How about the Ebola Virus? The common cold virus? Polio? The list goes on....do you get my point? Sounds like this God of yours is against humanity and is vile and evil! I think you are biased. Lets say for the sake of argument that most of what we read was genuine. Would this change your belief statement in any way?

Fair enough. Of course, I could also claim that a source in which you quote is biased...but await your link. Do you have a source from a well regarded "expert" that states that we don't have a clue who wrote much of the Bible? OK, lets talk GOD then. The God of the Nicene Creed. IIRC you see GOD this way: You and I disagree on whether or not GOD can be known. I will admit that I cannot explain How except using the "ant analogy" the only way to commune/communicate with Ants is to become an Ant. In GOD's case, becoming an ant would not diminish the Creator of all seen and unseen only because He is limitless. Also I have a question. Do you know where the Trinity Doctrine originated?
Why is it that people have a hard time with the 3 in 1 concept as a threat to monotheism?If I state that there is a sun, light,(sunlight) and heat(created through thermal energy from the sun) it seems easy to understand that I am still talking about and referring to one sun.

Ive got so many questions---and yet so little time. My sister is in town and helping me take care of my 92 year old Mother. Today we plan to go out to Sweet Tomato's Restaurant for lunch! Seems as if "the to-do list" never ends!OK...back on topic..."perceived heresies" caught my attention. Remember the guy that walks into the house of mirrors to elude the pursuer who then shoots at multiple images in the mirror attempting to kill the bad guy? There is only one that is real...the others are all reflections of the original.To some of us, the concept of truth and/or belief are always relative to the individual. Thus we could also say that various clubs are relative to their members--as well as club bylaws and customs. Can any one religion or club claim Original status and label the rest as heretical?Others contend that there is a right teaching...Orthodoxy if you will--but even then we are faced with Orthodox Christianity as well as Orthodox Judaism, etc etc. Do you personally feel as if belief and practice are strictly between the individual and GOD as they understand Him(Her,etc) or even strictly themselves? Or do you believe that everyone deserves to belong to a good club?
What would be the traits of a "good Christian Chapter" in your opinion?You always favored the Book Of Common Prayer, IIRC. What made you decide to join the Episcopal Church?

One thing that I noticed upon googling the term, personal revelation is that almost all of the sites mentioned were from The Church Of latter Day Saints...the mormons! This led me back to my Bible where I studied some more and was reminded(personally, maybe? ) of a scripture 2 Peter:1:19-21which basically says that

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So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

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This scripture to me would seemingly challenge the idea of personal revelation. What do you think, jaywill? Edited by Phat, : fixed messup

The question in my mind is basically the motivation of the groups involved. I would tend to believe that progressive revelation played a part in all of that. I dont believe that anything in this world happens quite by accident. I also believe that GOD has a part in the learning and teaching of humanity. He likely knew that we would be arguing over this stuff this very day. He also knows that we are personally responsible for how we respond and what we DO in our lives for others and to others.I believe that Paul came along in History after Jesus for a reason. I don't believe that Jesus would have laughed at all that Paul did. I believe that Paul was human as are we all, however, and that his flesh and Spirit opposed each other, but I believe that the Spirit won.

If Christianity is all about what we do then I am at peace with my marketing strategy. Why should we think any differently about the motivations of the groups involved in changing the message over time? They may promise more benefits, but as long as they are doing the work necessary and achieving results, who are we to judge whether or not they are lying?I would argue that because of their Source, the content of their message is also truthful. You might argue that there was no reason for the message to be changed.Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky...although from an inspired source!

and I agree that we are to try and do for the least of these...not only those in our church, for example...but for the Muslim family down the street or the atheist guy who needs a job, or the hungry Buddhist (unless they are fasting ) so I agree .... And I also believe this. It does little good to feed a guy if that's all you do for him. Ringos infamous spare change routine comes to mind. What eternal good does it do simply to hand a guy a buck every time you see him?Of course one could argue that the man may see Christ in you-in your generosity and no-strings-attached approach to his problems. After all, I once knew of a church who refused to feed anybody until they also sat through a sermon...and I am not a fan of forced conversion, as some may be.
I agree with jaywill that all saints prophesy. One may ask what is a saint. I once had a Pastor who jokingly called some of us Sunday saints and Monday ain'ts...

Go for it, jaywill. Start one if you want, Faith. I think we could discuss it here, however. First lets review what the Bible says about Spiritual gifts and examine what the evidence shows about whether or not anyone we know has such gifts.First a question in general. jar believes that the church is called to help everyone whether they profess Christianity or not.(correct me if I'm wrong, jar) Does everyone see wisdom in this or do we spend our money and time on Christians first?

I have never heard that parable described by mentioning the goats as Christians. You do have a valid argument, however. Critics would assert that Jesus had not undergone the death,burial, and resurrection and thus had not yet paid the price for all...thus the audience at that speech was likely clueless as to what a Christian was. You might argue, however, that since Jesus addresses "all the nations" it may speak of a future time and addresses everyone on the planet.
When the son of man comes in all his glory was speaking of a time in the future, I would guess. Evidently sheep did for the least of these and goats just tried to look and sound holy....so perhaps the goats were/are Christians...I dunno... Charity is also translated as Love,and the word prophecy essentially means foreseeing...an intuitive word versus an educated (or random) guess. Does this mean that Paul was suggesting that Loving people was more important than speaking into their lives?This gets back to the question of whether we are loving God simply by feeding a down and out street guy without attempting to speak into his life and market our religion on him. I can see arguments for both views. Of course if a marketeer believes that humanity is not lost,that people are ok the way they are, and that carrying in groceries and making a beer run are approved by GOD, I suppose I can see the point.One question might be whether the church should be any different than habitat for humanity or any other secular organization.