The Marketing Of Christianity

We can always hypothetically ask WWJD?(What Would Jesus Do?) From what I know of Jesus He likely would do both--depending upon the circumstances of the moment. He could have just had His disciples tell everyone that there would be plenty of food...and then multiply a few loaves and fishes and fed everyone and that would be it. But what does the Bible say?Of course in Matthew we see John The Baptist foretelling the coming of Jesus. John goes on to say that Jesus was coming for a specific reason. The wheat and chaff analogy reminds us of Matthew 25 and the Sheep & Goats. It seems that "sheep" are a common reference and a good word study might help facilitate understanding. Gotta put that on my list...note also that John claims that Jesus will ...baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Not just simply give you a sandwich and tell you to have a nice day...see you at the movies! And let us look at what Jesus did...Im sticking with Matthew for now.... Some scholars attribute this as a reference inferring a Trinitarian God. 1)Father in Heaven 2) Descending dove...comforter...Holy Spirit...3)Jesus Himself...human while on earth yet bestowed by God and eternally existant. Thus it is all really about GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen relating to a bunch of ants on a dust speck...an earth among planets surrounding a Sun among many billions of stars Who by becoming an ant (which does not mean that the Creator created this ant but that the ant was by nature the creator in human form).... It has been said that Johns Gospel emphasizes Jesus as Deity more than the others. jar once explained it this way: Which could explain why there was a voice "from Heaven" rather than Jesus simply crowning Himself as Napoleon of France once did! Anyway lets get back to Matthew. The original question was whether a Christian should do more than simply feed people. So lets examine Jesus some more.
In Matthew 4, Jesus is tested in the Wilderness. I would argue that this scripture supports the idea that people don't simply need bread. I don't mean to suggest that feeding people is wrong. Edited by Phat, : fixed broken quote

It could be argued, however, that the "Family of God" already knows the Creator and thus would not need the food as much as an unbeliever. Why go out after church and buy each other lunch at Dennys when your "spare change" could be easily spent more profitably elsewhere? Food for thought.

Sorry Ive ignored your posts until now. My sis has been in town and we have been doing things for mom. Mom is 92, sis is 67 and im 56 so all I can say is Im not as young as I want to be! Anyway lets talk, Hyro. (shortening your name because im lazy) The evidence would show that He does not honor,nor grant favor to all prayers. The jury is out on whether he answers Any prayers, but I believe that he does. I disagree. Gambling is based on probability. The difference between probability and chance is that probability can be mathematically calculated whereas chance can only be guessed. And as you see from my quote, I do NOT believe that chance is a valid concept. We have no way to test whether God is here or not. I believe that He is. That being said, I don't believe that God functions similar to how Barbara Eden did on I Dream of Jeannie. Personally, I have challenges regarding my belief but i'm hardly "running on fumes". I have a lot of questions but quite frankly I rarely doubt...except when I'm personally uncomfortable and mad at God for not doing as I wanted Him to do. Debating with jar has taught me a lot how to think, how to question, and viewing Christianity not simply through the lens of people who parrot my belief, but rather through many different people and beliefs. I ask these questions not just for myself but on behalf of encouraging/teaching/understanding others. I dont have a motive to market my beliefs in the vain hope that everyone will jump ship and agree with me. I have a passion for discussing this stuff largely because I believe that GOD is real. Besides...I get bored talking politics and football! If I never wrestled, I would never learn. This brings up a question and potentially a topic unto itself: Do most people believe in things that they prefer to be true? This goes for religion, politics, and even slot machines!

Some say that there are lost people and "found" people and that the saved ones have come to a knowledge of Gods truth that the lost people had nary a clue about. If you believe that, the baptism gives you knowledge. It is not, however, an end in itself. A man could have all the knowledge of the universe, but if he never applied it towards any profitable end, it would be useless. The same goes for the baptism that John the Baptist states happens through Jesus the Righteous One. In which case I would say that "yes, it helps you make better sandiches".. Good question. Perhaps "more" is more of a conscience...more of a desire to help others...more insight into how others think and feel...empathy, perhaps. Some don't think that there is a hell. Most can agree on some sort of judgement...even if a Creator need not be present in their mind. Perhaps some may believe that we are our own judges. If so, one can get-out-of-hell, it is free to do, and all it requires is some discipline...and perhaps a baptism by fire.

In my opinion, God gave us a brain but He wont use it for us. I believe that He sometimes inspires creativity, knowledge, and insight but that it is us who have to use it. Its like having a bottle of medicine that you never use. YOU have to open the bottle and take the necessary action to promote healing. That being said I believe that God is better medicine than without, but of course thats my personal belief. Some folks believe that only they can heal themselves. In any case it takes action. jar was right. its about what you do.

That was just the leadership team.Matthias had just replaced Judas...who kinda fired himself....and they were of one mind and prayed that no new traitors would ever appear again.

I don't believe that jar or ringo is being insulting, Faith. They are simply challenging people to think a bit rather than have everything spoon fed to us as if we can't.It takes a thick skin to hang around here.Besides, you have to understand jars background. I don't always agree with him. But he was taught to think. If you really look at it, jar and ringo are doing us a favor by challenging us to really examine our beliefs and to better defend them rather than simply get mad and brand them as heretics.

I have a question for you, Faith. Do you believe that it is necessary to believe in a literal Bible as a condition of salvation? I know that jar doesn't but I'm not sure of jaywells views on it. Also maybe I should clarify what I see as literal.I once saw a chart where some marketers attempted to explain the difference between Word for Word Literalism and Thought for Thought Literalism. The translation comparison charts show how the authors view each translation on the spectrum.Personally I see some Bible stories as parables or lessons. some say the book is an anthology. Some say that much of it is mythological, but I personally dont see that. I believe that the entire book (or books) is inspired by God....but I'm still having difficulty grasping how God explains things through humans to other humans.Edited by Phat, : fixed boo boo

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Jesus had only 120 who cared enough to await the next stage in God's move on the earth.

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I would think that anyone with a brain--if they believed in God---would care what He was going to do next.Some say that God Himself could care less about us. Once he gave us wisdom and life, he expected us to grow up and leave the nest. Others believe that the whole world is His nest.I would imagine that the upper room bunch cared and felt that prayer and fasting mattered. They wanted to be on the cutting edge of Gods big moves regarding the future of humanity.

How so? I would argue that prayer and fasting both help in these matters though you may scientifically have an argument.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

well for one thing, Jesus did both so I expect they have some value. It may take me awhile to do the necessary reading and study to give you a good answer, however. Be patient with me.

I realize that this is true. Allow me to use an analogy. Say that you had a child...one whom you were trying to discipline to stay close to you for his/her own good. On the one hand you wanted to protect your child from all harm On the other, you wanted them to have the freedom to grow and learn to deal with challenges in life. Lets take the analogy further. You are the Creator of all seen and unseen. Critics may ask why you had to create disaster. Why allow evil to exist? Why allow darkness to exist?One answer is the concept of free will.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms:self-determination, freedom of choice, autonomy, liberty, independence....Getting back to our analogy, if you told your child to stay indoors and never go outside of the house, they could always disobey you unless you had no such thing or place as outside.So in summation...yes, God saves us from a condition He initially caused. Our salvation, however, is a choice that we choose.Edited by Phat, : appallin spallin

One concept which stops many at EvC in their tracks from accepting GOD as real is the lack of evidence for a Creator and/or Jesus Christ:Alive Today.Of the many Bible Studies and lessons which i have heard on this topic, it appears to me that GOD by design requires Faith rather than Evidence.
Faith vs FactsVines talks of the word Faith in this context:

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FAITH

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pistis NT:4102, primarily, "firm persuasion," a conviction based upon hearing (akin to peitho, "to persuade"), is used in the NT always of "faith in God or Christ, or things spiritual."

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The word is used of (a) trust, e. g., Rom 3:25 [see Note (4) below]; 1 Cor 2:5; 15:14,17; 2 Cor 1:24; Gal 3:23 [see Note (5) below]; Phil 1:25; 2:17; 1 Thess 3:2; 2 Thess 1:3; 3:2; (b) trust-worthiness, e. g., Matt 23:23; Rom 3:3, RV, "the faithfulness of God"; Gal 5:22 (RV, "faithfulness"); Titus 2:10, "fidelity"; (c) by metonymy, what is believed, the contents of belief, the "faith," Acts 6:7; 14:22; Gal 1:23; 3:25 [contrast 3:23, under (a)]; 6:10; 1:27; 3:10; 1:3,20 (and perhaps 2 Thess 3:2); (d) a ground for "faith," an assurance, Acts 17:31 (not as in KJV, marg., "offered faith"); (e) a pledge of fidelity, plighted "faith," 1 Tim 5:12.

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The main elements in "faith" in its relation to the invisible God, as distinct from "faith" in man, are especially brought out in the use of this noun and the corresponding verb, pisteuo; they are (1) a firm conviction, producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation or truth, e. g., 2 Thess 2:11-12; (2) a personal surrender to Him, John 1:12; (3) a conduct inspired by such surrender, 2 Cor 5:7. Prominence is given to one or other of these elements according to the context. All this stands in contrast to belief in its purely natural exercise, which consists of an opinion held in good "faith" without necessary reference to its proof. The object of Abraham's "faith" was not God's promise (that was the occasion of its exercise); his "faith" rested on God Himself, Rom 4:17,20-21. See ASSURANCE, BELIEF, FAITHFULNESS, FIDELITY.(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright (c)1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

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The story of Thomas illustrates this well. John 20:24-29...in other words, Thomas needed evidence.Notice that it was still a matter of his will. In other words, stop being skeptics that require evidence. You may never get it...and if you are ultimately wrong, it won't be Gods fault for not providing you with evidence.

I cannot believe you see no evidence of "fruits of the Spirit" today. Studying ancient manuscripts is not getting anyone closer to God. God is the Living Word...not a bunch of dried up scrolls. I have seen the fruit of the Spirit show itself through many people. It has happened through me, but not often enough. I blame myself for not trusting God enough. Without faith it is impossible to please God...God is not impressed with evidence...either common sense 20th century sociology nor ancient scribblings. God is impressed with those who believe that He is and that through us He operates in this world. I know the counter-arguments...I hear them often around here.My belief hinges on faith. You may someday get an opportunity to see the subjective evidence by watching power come through a person of faith.There are no ancient secrets that we need to learn. There is but the simple faith of a child..

Because prayer and fasting denies the flesh and willfully feeds the Spirit living within us. Jesus showed us examples of this practice. I am not suggesting that we are not called to simply do the work. What I am asserting is that you will get closer to knowing the mind and heart of God through prayer and fasting if you desire to also do those things anyway. Not exactly. We know that there is work to be done and that we are charged to do it. Some of us would rather go watch a movie or feed our flesh and carnal appetite some other way rather than help others. Prayer and fasting breaks that bondage. Again, it is not a strict order from God that we are to pray and fast. it is a command to do what you have suggested. I am only saying that prayer and fasting will break carnal bondage and strengthen you to be in this world but not of it. A closer walk with the Spirit and less of a bondage from the flesh.