Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,820 Year: 3,077/9,624 Month: 922/1,588 Week: 105/223 Day: 3/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 189 of 591 (788897)
08-07-2016 4:47 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:43 AM


>>> to help you improve you.<<<
jar writes:
Two of the main purposes of prayer and fasting are setting aside time for introspection, for examining YOUR past behavior and deciding how to change YOUR future behavior, and as a tool to build empathy, to better understand what life without comforts is like.
Prayer and fasting are meant to help you improve you.
And a better me makes a better servant for Him.
Faith writes:
... It may also sensitize you to your own faults at the same time.
And we all could use a dose of humility.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 591 (788898)
08-07-2016 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:43 AM


Doing For Others
Faith writes:
Phat has been saying most of this already though. I don't know what the problem is with getting his point.
Because jar says that we are responsible for what we do. Im trying to show him that God is responsible for strengthening us through prayer and fasting. It is His promise. It is also our responsibility as Christians to pray and fast as led by the Spirit.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:43 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 08-07-2016 2:25 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 191 of 591 (788899)
08-07-2016 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by NoNukes
08-03-2016 8:43 AM


Re: prayer and fasting.
nonukes writes:
Jesus did recommend prayer and fasting. But did Jesus ever indicate that doing so helped feed the poor or shelter the homeless? No. He told us that doing so was our own responsibility. You aren't suppose to simply pray and fast in order to get a mystical visit to folks in prison, you are supposed to take your butt to the big house.
No buts about it!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2016 8:43 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 193 of 591 (789752)
08-18-2016 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by ringo
08-07-2016 2:25 PM


What Is More Important?
ringo writes:
Your earthly employer would probably tell you to do your prayer and fasting on your own time; as long as there are customers waiting to be fed, your job is to feed them.
Do you consider your life "His Time" or "Your Time"?
the poor we will always have with us. The hungry too. Does God expect us to skip prayer simply to feed one more person? They will hunger again unless we feed them spiritual food. Yet if we fail to pray, we have failed to attend company meetings all in the interest of feeding one more of the masses. Im quite sure you will want to keep the store open for the late straggler rather than edify andf strengthen yourself through prayer. Then again, you probably don't think you need prayer.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 08-07-2016 2:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 08-18-2016 9:01 PM Phat has replied
 Message 195 by NoNukes, posted 08-18-2016 10:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 204 by ringo, posted 08-19-2016 12:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 196 of 591 (789772)
08-19-2016 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by jar
08-18-2016 9:01 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Phat writes:
They will hunger again unless we feed them spiritual food.
jar,emphatically writes:
That is utter bullshit and a sorry excuse as well.
I am not emphasizing excuses why not to feed the masses. I am emphasizing valid reasons to pray. When Jesus told Peter to "feed my sheep" He was not simply talking about food.
Q: Where does the Bible say "teach a man to fish?"
A: The Bible doesn't say "teach a man to fish," this phrase is from a Chinese proverb. The full text is: "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."
FULL ANSWER
The passage in the Bible that is commonly thought to say "teach a man to fish" is found in Mathew 4:19. Here, Jesus is walking near the shore of the Sea of Galilee, when he sees two brothers, Simon and Andrew, throwing out their fishing nets. Jesus says them, "follow me and I will make you fishers of men." (NASB) In the next verse, Simon, also known as Peter, and Andrew drop their nets and follow Jesus, thus becoming his first disciples.
My point is that by following Jesus you imitate all that Jesus did. How often do we see Jesus praying?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 08-18-2016 9:01 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by jar, posted 08-19-2016 8:57 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 198 of 591 (789779)
08-19-2016 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by jar
08-19-2016 8:57 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
Have you?
Consider this:
quote:
Question: "Why did Jesus tell Peter to 'feed my sheep' in John 21?"
Answer: Jesus gave Peter a three-fold command to feed my sheep in John 21:15-17. Each time Jesus said, Feed my sheep, it was in response to Peter’s three-fold declaration of love for Jesus. The setting was one of the last of Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances to His disciples on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. Jesus prepared a breakfast of fish and bread for them, and then commissioned Peter with the task of feeding His sheep and tending His lambs.
The three commands, although often translated the same way, are subtly different. The first time Jesus says it, the Greek means literally pasture (tend) the lambs (v. 15). The Greek word for pasture is in the present tense, denoting a continual action of tending, feeding and caring for animals. Believers are referred to as sheep throughout Scripture. For he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care (Psalm 95:7). Jesus is both our Good Shepherd (John 10:11) and the Door of the sheepfold (John 10:9). By describing His people as lambs, He is emphasizing their nature as immature and vulnerable and in need of tending and care.
The second time, the literal meaning is tend My sheep (v. 16). In this exchange, Jesus was emphasizing tending the sheep in a supervisory capacity, not only feeding but ruling over them. This expresses the full scope of pastoral oversight, both in Peter’s future and in all those who would follow him in pastoral ministry. Peter follows Jesus’ example and repeats this same Greek word poimaino in his first pastoral letter to the elders of the churches of Asia Minor: Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers (1 Peter 5:2).
The third time, the literal translation is pasture (tend) the sheep (v. 17). Here Jesus combines the different Greek words to make clear the job of the shepherd of the flock of God. They are to tend, care for, and provide spiritual food for God’s people, from the youngest lambs to the full-grown sheep, in continual action to nourish and care for their souls, bringing them into the fullness of spiritual maturity. The totality of the task set before Peter, and all shepherds, is made clear by Jesus’ three-fold command and the words He chooses.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by jar, posted 08-19-2016 8:57 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by jar, posted 08-19-2016 9:34 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 200 of 591 (789784)
08-19-2016 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by jar
08-19-2016 9:34 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
Lets try the OT:
Deuteronomy 8:3 writes:
And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.
What makes you think that Jesus only thought of natural food?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by jar, posted 08-19-2016 9:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 08-19-2016 9:51 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 202 of 591 (789786)
08-19-2016 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by jar
08-19-2016 9:51 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
see message 198

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 08-19-2016 9:51 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by jar, posted 08-19-2016 10:27 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 205 of 591 (789815)
08-20-2016 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by ringo
08-19-2016 12:08 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
ringo writes:
You're pretending to "strengthen yourself" while you're defeating your own purpose.
All I'm saying--again-and yes we have gone over this before-is that a Christian is called to do more than to simply be a worker bee that feeds and clothes people. Anybody can do that. We do that. My point is that we are called to do more than that.
Our purpose is more than just providing physical needs..
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by ringo, posted 08-19-2016 12:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by jar, posted 08-20-2016 8:44 AM Phat has replied
 Message 211 by ringo, posted 08-20-2016 11:43 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 207 of 591 (789818)
08-20-2016 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by jar
08-20-2016 8:44 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
How does one comfort the sorrowful? People who have lost loved ones due to death? People who are themselves about to die. I firmly believe that we are called to offer them a Blessed Hope. To be Jesus Christ to them. To offer hope beyond this life as well as hope in this life. If you simply tell them that Jesus is not alive, you may be factually correct in that we do not know, but you are not representing Christianity well at all. The evidence tells us that Jesus is no longer alive and that His death was not as important as some Christians suggest. This is wrong.
As for feeding the hungry, I again emphasize that merely giving a man a paper bag from the food bank will not do much for them spiritually--apart from making them physically full for the moment. Jesus expected us to provide spiritual nourishment as well as physical nourishment.
healing the sick is so much more than ER. Healing the sick is more than band-aids, Chicken soup, and Proper medicine. There is a mental/spiritual component here as well.
I will give you that clothing the naked is fairly straight forward. Symbolically, however, I would assert that clothing them with righteousness is an added dimension.
You might call it recruiting...and may disagree with the practice, as most good Jews do.
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith. 2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause.
I would argue, however, that knowing Jesus is good for everybody on the planet.
What do people think about once they have met you? Do they see an old man that is honest yet cusses and makes jokes about getting laid? Do they see an old Eisenhower Republican who is well versed in logic and critical thinking? Do they see a good scholar who was too arrogant for college? A lover of pens? A contrarian who hangs out at EvC and outposts all of us?
This same argument can be used at me. What do people see when they read my posts?
When we comfort the sorrowful, feed the hungry, heal(or tend to) the sick,and clothe the naked WHOM do we represent?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by jar, posted 08-20-2016 8:44 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by jar, posted 08-20-2016 9:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 213 of 591 (789888)
08-21-2016 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ringo
08-20-2016 11:43 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
Jesus said we will always have the poor with us, so you're never finished doing X.
So what good will it do merely to keep people fed if they die without knowing the Truth?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ringo, posted 08-20-2016 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 08-21-2016 10:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 11:46 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 217 of 591 (789934)
08-22-2016 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by ringo
08-22-2016 11:46 AM


Re: What Is More Important?
What good is it to know "The Truth" if you're dead?
John3:16 writes:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
And as long as I'm on this "quotes" kick, I may as well throw in David Niven--
I've taken up the Bible again, somewhat in the spirit of W.C. Fields - looking for loopholes.
David Niven

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 11:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 1:19 PM Phat has replied
 Message 221 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 1:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 219 of 591 (789939)
08-22-2016 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by ringo
08-22-2016 1:19 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
What good is "eternal" life if this life is miserable?
I fully agree.
And again..im not against feeding people materialistically as it were..
I'm just saying not to limit a Christian to this task...its a waste of talent. Anybody can feed people.
Its like having a PhD teach 1st grade.
Normal folks dont know squat about eternal life.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 08-22-2016 1:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Theodoric, posted 08-22-2016 1:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 233 by ringo, posted 08-23-2016 11:42 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 222 of 591 (789959)
08-22-2016 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by jar
08-22-2016 1:42 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
jar writes:
You use the term truth very loosely and I really wonder if you have a clue what the word means or what the quotes YOU provide mean?
The truth is the light. The truth is the Spirit. Jesus said to Pilate that He was(and is) the Truth.
Quoting John 3:16 out of context a great example of the utter bankruptcy and dishonesty of the "Biblical Christians".
You sure have it out for these so-called Biblical Christians, don't you. It seemingly infuriates you that they think they have found a loophole of getting out of hell and into heaven without doing any work. If you hung out with me for any length of time you would find that I do as much if not more "work" than you think. But thats irrelevant.
quote:
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
jar writes:
Notice that it goes on to talk about how belief is shown and that is by doing, not just believing.
Where have I ever indicated that doing is not necessary? All i have pointed out to Ringo is that a Christian has a bigger job to do than simply feed and cloth people like they work at a food bank/thrift store.
It's about what people do Phat, not what they believe.
Its about both, jar. Its just that simple.
jar writes:
But you don't like that...
I have no problem with you re-emphasizing it again and again. My only concern is that you have poor Ringo convinced that giving spare change and feeding people is enough. To me this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 1:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 9:52 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 224 of 591 (789964)
08-22-2016 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by jar
08-22-2016 9:52 PM


Re: What Is More Important?
Did Jesus pray? Are we to take up our cross and follow Him? What does it mean to follow Him, if not to do as he did?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 9:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 11:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024