Faith vs Science

Faith should not have evidence. Once there is evidence we move from the realm of Faith into the area of conclusions. Of course people can get angry when their beliefs are challenged but they cannot then act based on that anger. Creationists cannot claim Faith and then claim it is supported by evidence or Science. If they do make such claims then their beliefs MUST be challenged.

That is such a bunch of garbage. Faith in the right things, true things, real things although unseen things, faith in the true God and His revelation in the Bible, can certainly lead to knowledge of things in the real world. Nobody is claiming faith "is supported by evidence or science," what we are claiming is that faith LEADS to knowledge that can be scientific.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I'm sure Phat had in mind that God won't let us find a certain kind of evidence, the kind that does fine for science but not for things of the spirit. For spiritual things, however, He's provided evidence galore.

Sorry to interrupt but I won't take long.

Given that supernatural events are routine for your belief, you'd think that just one of them might be available.

You guys always think a supernatural event, a miracle, would convince you, but the fact is that you'd find some way to rationalize it away. And of course you won't accept miracles reported by others, you'd have to see it yourself. The Bible is full of witnessed miracles, witnessed by many people at once, but you won't accept those, always find some way to discredit them.

All I wanted to say. Carry on.

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Although many try, you can't square the loving forgiving God we see in Jesus to the vengeful God that is sometimes portrayed in the OT. It can't be done. That does not mean that we can't find the loving God in the pages of the OT as well.

What do you do with the NT passages that describe Jesus as that vengeful God?

(Oh I'm sure I know: you tell yourself they were written by people who hold opinions you don't like so therefore they must be false. Oh well.)

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb....

Faith and religion are the exact opposite of science. Faith and religion rely on unevidenced beliefs

Christianity does not. I grant that even some Christians think so but it doesn't. The Bible is full of evidence, and it was given so that people would believe. You have to call all the witnesses liars to reject the evidence given. That's the only way you can claim that the belief is unevidenced, after you've destroyed the evidence.

Faith and religion rely on unevidenced beliefs and vacuous claims, while science relies on tested evidence.

There wouldn't be any experimental science if it weren't for Christianity. The first experimental scientists were Christians, who were inspired by the presentation of rational laws given by a rational God.

Many Christians oppose evolution and the old earth but nothing else in science, nothing in the hard sciences. Evolution and the old earth cannot be proved because the past can't be proved; even your dating methods have to be assumed and can't be proved. Unfortunately the adherence to the false beliefs of the historical sciences skews the understanding of the facts.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.