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Author Topic:   Creation
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


(1)
Message 390 of 1482 (826934)
01-14-2018 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ICANT
04-22-2016 3:13 AM


quote:
The Bible does not say when the beginning was, just that it was.

It seems to say that In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Then it proceeds to explain how. One of the things that happened was He made Adam. From the chronologies, we can deduce about how long ago that was.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ICANT, posted 04-22-2016 3:13 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by ICANT, posted 01-18-2018 11:23 AM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 398 of 1482 (827171)
01-19-2018 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by ICANT
01-18-2018 11:23 AM


Re: Creation
From the rest of the bible we know a few things that quantify this. One example is that this universe or heavens, stars, etc,, will pass away suddenly. Fold up like a scroll.

So whatever the stars are, they will all cease to exist one day. We also know that stars were put there to be for signs and time for man on earth. From earth, we will also see them all disappear. So one cannot suggest that the stars were already here before the world in any meaningful way.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by ICANT, posted 01-18-2018 11:23 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2018 12:21 PM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 411 of 1482 (827246)
01-21-2018 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by ICANT
01-19-2018 12:21 PM


Re: Creation
icant writes:

Since you say the Bible says the heavens and the earth will fold up like a scroll, could you please supply book, chapter, and verse where I can find that?

I can't find where the Bible says it will pass away suddenly, nor fold up like a scroll,.

" 14. departed--Greek, "was separated from" its place; "was made to depart." Not as ALFORD, "parted asunder"; for, on the contrary, it was rolled together as a scroll which had been open is rolled up and laid aside. There is no "asunder one from another" here in the Greek, as in Ac 15:39, which ALFORD copies. "

http://classic.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=re&ch...

Rev 6:14 -And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


I can find where it will melt with fervent heat:

quote:
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I do not see the sun in there anywhere. You seem to be trying to adjust it to what you think science demands. I do see that the sun will go out...dark in the very end. Cities will need to use candles. Well, since every tower on earth will shake to the ground, maybe using the word city is a stretch, but you get the drift.


Some scientist believe the universe has melted many times in the past and had a new beginning to exist out of the melted blob of energy. They would use different words to express what I said, which is OK.
Beliefs. They might as well say they believe a turtle had a bowel movement and out popped the universe.


Yes they will melt as they are part of the heavens.
Where are you going to be standing when they melt?
You mentioned you thought the sun did the melting. That won't work for the stars!

The heat thing probably refers to the earth area anyhow. We do see God sends fire from heaven to melt the surface of the earth and cleanse it after the 1000 years reign. Probably that is when Peter is talking about...not constellations 'melting'!


The stars and everything in the heavens was created on day one which is found in Genesis 1:1-5.
Actually stars are not even mentioned till several verses later. You infer that because you want to get billions of years in by verse one for no apparent reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by ICANT, posted 01-19-2018 12:21 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Phat, posted 01-21-2018 2:06 PM creation has responded
 Message 430 by ICANT, posted 01-30-2018 10:56 PM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 413 of 1482 (827263)
01-21-2018 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by Phat
01-21-2018 2:06 PM


Re: Creation
If the Sun "goes out" there will be nothing left alive to light the candles.
Yet there will be. That tells me science doesn't really know how the sun works...or will work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Phat, posted 01-21-2018 2:06 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2018 3:29 PM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 415 of 1482 (827298)
01-22-2018 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by Tangle
01-21-2018 3:29 PM


Re: Creation
tangle writes:

...

It is elementary that if the bible is true, that the sun does or will not work the way science has conceived.

The test will come. Better have some candles ready I guess. The stars, when they fall, and go out will be at the same time, so we can't blame the sun.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Tangle, posted 01-21-2018 3:29 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Tangle, posted 01-22-2018 9:55 AM creation has responded
 Message 418 by ringo, posted 01-26-2018 11:31 AM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 417 of 1482 (827483)
01-26-2018 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Tangle
01-22-2018 9:55 AM


Re: Creation
tangle writes:

...

?=u


This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Tangle, posted 01-22-2018 9:55 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 421 of 1482 (827533)
01-27-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by ringo
01-26-2018 11:31 AM


Re: Creation
ringo writes:

The Bible is not true. We know that.

No we don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by ringo, posted 01-26-2018 11:31 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by jar, posted 01-27-2018 2:29 PM creation has responded
 Message 426 by ringo, posted 01-29-2018 10:54 AM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 422 of 1482 (827534)
01-27-2018 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by ringo
01-26-2018 11:53 AM


Re: days and dates
ringo writes:

Did the Hebrews even have a concept of "space"?

Well Genesis does say the stars were put in something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by ringo, posted 01-26-2018 11:53 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by ringo, posted 01-29-2018 10:59 AM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 424 of 1482 (827614)
01-28-2018 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by jar
01-27-2018 2:29 PM


Re: Creation
[qs=jar]Well all honest people know that the Bible stories themselves are evidence that they are not true.[qs] Absurdly false.

There are two mutually exclusive creation myths; the God character in each is different, the order is different, the method of creation is different and both are overwhelmingly refuted by reality.
Old wives tale. By Gen 2 it was over and done. Finished. What it covers was no order.

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 Message 423 by jar, posted 01-27-2018 2:29 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by jar, posted 01-28-2018 5:53 PM creation has not yet responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 920 of 1482 (840574)
10-02-2018 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 912 by Modulous
06-13-2018 1:13 PM


Re: Speed of Light vs. Expansion of the Universe
Modulus..
quote:
...And there definitely was a prior point in time for today. Yesterday is an example.

On earth, yes. In the area around the earth and sun..yes. Can you show there was time as we know it out where stars are?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 912 by Modulous, posted 06-13-2018 1:13 PM Modulous has not yet responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 921 of 1482 (840663)
10-02-2018 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 430 by ICANT
01-30-2018 10:56 PM


Re: Creation
quote:
Now if you think time is a dimension like some, I will ask you as I have asked others to tell me how to measure time. You can not measure it with a watch as they only measures the duration between events.

Time is the duration of existence between events in eternity that we measure by various means based on the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun.


That is one definition of time. I don't think we could define eternity. Part of your time definition includes eternity.

I think man also uses the decay of atoms to measure time, and other things, not just the rotation of earth.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by ICANT, posted 01-30-2018 10:56 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 923 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2018 12:49 AM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 924 of 1482 (840675)
10-03-2018 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 923 by ICANT
10-03-2018 12:49 AM


Re: Creation
quote:
Why can't we define eternity?

We define it as infinite or unending.

God defined it when He said I exist that I exist.

Without existence there can be no events with duration between them to measure.


How about existence where the duration does not involve the same amount of time? If you existed near a star, how would we know what sort of time you would experience there?

Our concept of unending may not really encompass what eternity is. For example we imagine an arrow of time moving in a certain way in a certain direction. What if time was something else? I see time more as a feature of this temporary present world.

quote:
The atomic clock uses the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom to equal a second.

But it is still based on the rotation of the earth relative to the sun. Every so often the atomic clock has to be adjusted to match the rotation of the earth. That is the reason we have leap seconds.


Interesting.

But I am not sure that radioactive decay really has much to do with the earth moving round the sun. If people need to adjust clocks that is something that has to do with people. Nt decay, and not really the orbits of planets.

Edited by creation, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 923 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2018 12:49 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 928 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2018 5:02 PM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 926 of 1482 (840709)
10-03-2018 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 925 by ringo
10-03-2018 11:54 AM


Re: Creation
Being indefinite to poor little man does not mean something is indefinite.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 925 by ringo, posted 10-03-2018 11:54 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 927 by ringo, posted 10-03-2018 12:32 PM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 937 of 1482 (840818)
10-04-2018 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 928 by ICANT
10-03-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Creation
You cannot say duration (the way time exists and is woven with space) is the same everywhere in the universe, sorry. Prove it.

As for your claim there is no time..ha.

I don't think you know what time is, and cannot wave it away as being merely a construct of the mind of man. How long does it take for a squirrel to cross a road or a bird to migrate? Time is not a figment or creation of our mind it is real.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 928 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2018 5:02 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 952 by ICANT, posted 10-05-2018 1:19 AM creation has responded

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1058 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 938 of 1482 (840819)
10-04-2018 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 927 by ringo
10-03-2018 12:32 PM


Re: Creation
Speak for yourself when you say 'we' define....not everyone accepts your religious definition attempts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 927 by ringo, posted 10-03-2018 12:32 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 941 by ringo, posted 10-04-2018 4:03 PM creation has responded

  
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