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Author Topic:   Creation
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 198 of 1482 (783769)
05-08-2016 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
05-08-2016 3:07 PM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
Faith writes:

I'm going to trust the Christian theologians.


Spoken like a true Bible-commentary-literalist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 05-08-2016 3:07 PM Faith has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 259 of 1482 (809597)
05-19-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Phat
05-19-2017 8:49 AM


Re: Giving This Topic Another Opportunity
Phat writes:

I like that you interpret the Bible without definite dates assigned to given events. This makes the belief that God created everything more plausible---in light of today's scientific evidence.


Sure, leaving stuff out is a good way to make a story more plausible. The three pigs building houses is much more plausible if you neglect to mention that pigs don't have fingers.

But the Bible clearly does imply dates. The days of creation are 24-hour days, humans were created on day 6 and their genealogies are laid out fairly precisely.

It doesn't make much sense to make the Bible true by re-writing it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Phat, posted 05-19-2017 8:49 AM Phat has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by DOCJ, posted 08-18-2017 9:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 272 of 1482 (811675)
06-10-2017 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Davidjay
06-10-2017 11:43 AM


Re: 24 days dictates knowledge of when BEGINNING was
Davidjay writes:

I always answer evolutionists


You now have more than SIXTY TOPICs in which you have not answered posts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:43 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:57 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 274 of 1482 (811682)
06-10-2017 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Davidjay
06-10-2017 11:57 AM


Re: 24 days dictates knowledge of when BEGINNING was
Davidjay writes:

I always answer sincere questions and even your insincere questions......


Then go answer the sixty topics that you haven't answered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:57 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Davidjay, posted 06-11-2017 12:10 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 276 of 1482 (811746)
06-11-2017 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Davidjay
06-11-2017 12:10 AM


Re:
Davidjay writes:

No.. I have already anwered your insincere questions and your excuses.


No you have not. You have sixty topics in which you have not answered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Davidjay, posted 06-11-2017 12:10 AM Davidjay has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 293 of 1482 (814761)
07-12-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Faith
07-11-2017 8:59 PM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
Faith writes:

How do you account for the Biblical view that death entered the world by one man, Adam?


It's figurative. There was never a time when living things didn't die. There was never a time when there were only two humans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 07-11-2017 8:59 PM Faith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-13-2017 6:34 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 311 of 1482 (815002)
07-14-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by Tom Larkin
07-13-2017 6:34 PM


Tom Larkin writes:

Adam did not die when he ate the fruit, he experienced spiritual death or separation from God.


It wasn't "separation" from God as much as growing up and becoming less dependent on God:
quote:
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

The natural scheme of things was for Adam to "leave" God to join Eve. His thoughts were filtered through hers. He had two "advisors" instead of one.

And that was before the fruit-eating incident and the supposed "fall".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-13-2017 6:34 PM Tom Larkin has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 322 of 1482 (815192)
07-17-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Tom Larkin
07-16-2017 4:06 PM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
Tom Larkin writes:

What I am saying is that the events of Genesis 1 and 2 are in sequence, in Chapter 1, men and women are created. In chapter 2 Adam and Eve are created, not the first men and women. Therefore there is no conflict with evolution, evolved man is in chapter 1.


Are you suggesting that there are two separate strains of humans on earth? Descendants of Adam and descendants of "the first mean and women"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-16-2017 4:06 PM Tom Larkin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-17-2017 5:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 328 of 1482 (815294)
07-18-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by Tom Larkin
07-17-2017 5:04 PM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
Tom Larkin writes:

I am suggesting that men and women were created in Chapter 1 and that Adam and Eve and the garden were created in Chapter2. If you just read Genesis, this is what it says.


Actually no. If you read it without any preconceived notions, it just sounds like two references to the same people. Genesis 2 is more of a close-up. That's standard storytelling.

Tom Larkin writes:

I believe that the creation described in Chapter 1 is consistent with this approach, describes the line not leading to Jesus (and the "daughters of men" in Chapter 6), and the creation describe from Chapter 2 on describes the generations leading to Christ (the "sons of God" in Chapter 6, consistent with the rest of Genesis (more detail in the book).


So your answer is yes? There are two different strains of humans on earth? Is it possible to tell which of us are related to Christ and which are not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-17-2017 5:04 PM Tom Larkin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by NoNukes, posted 07-18-2017 12:02 PM ringo has replied
 Message 332 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-22-2017 11:19 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 329 of 1482 (815296)
07-18-2017 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by Tom Larkin
07-18-2017 5:41 AM


Re: On the Bible and reality
Tom Larkin writes:

In my book, I state that my argument is Biblical so if you do not accept the Bible, then the argument is meaningless.


I accept the Bible as it is, not as you wish it would be. I accept that it contains errors and/or inconsistencies like any other book. I don't have to accept your attempt at reconciliation or any of the other dozens of attempts at reconciliation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-18-2017 5:41 AM Tom Larkin has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 331 of 1482 (815298)
07-18-2017 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by NoNukes
07-18-2017 12:02 PM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
NoNukes writes:

Most of the other folk here believe that Genesis 1 and 2 are simply incompatible stories.


That belief is based more on analysis of the text than on a plain reading of the text. Tom Larkin seems to be talking about a plain reading of the text and so am I.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by NoNukes, posted 07-18-2017 12:02 PM NoNukes has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 337 of 1482 (815660)
07-22-2017 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Tom Larkin
07-22-2017 11:19 AM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
Tom Larkin writes:

... men and women trained in science are rejecting scripture when there is no need....


I think you have that wrong. I, for one, accept the Bible. I accept it for what it is, myth. You're the one who's rejecting myth.

Science and myth are mutually exclusive studies. That doesn't make either of them less valuable.

And there is no reason to pretend that there is any scientific truth in the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-22-2017 11:19 AM Tom Larkin has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 349 of 1482 (815709)
07-23-2017 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Tom Larkin
07-22-2017 8:53 PM


Tom Larkin writes:

... let the Bible be the Bible and let science be science.


But you're not letting the Bible be the Bible. You're starting with unfounded assumptions such as " the Bible is the word of God (the current 66 books)".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Tom Larkin, posted 07-22-2017 8:53 PM Tom Larkin has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 357 of 1482 (817727)
08-19-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by DOCJ
08-18-2017 9:20 PM


Re: Giving This Topic Another Opportunity
DOCJ writes:

Where are the dates?


It gives ages. You can add them up to get dates.

DOCJ writes:

Where does it say 24hrs?


It doesn't say otherwise. When somebody says "day" it means 24 hours unless he specifies otherwise. You have to go through a lot of mental gymnastics to get anything but 24-hour days from Genesis - and those gymnastics are all your own fiction, not derived from the text.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by DOCJ, posted 08-18-2017 9:20 PM DOCJ has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by DOCJ, posted 08-19-2017 1:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19521
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 358 of 1482 (817729)
08-19-2017 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by DOCJ
08-19-2017 10:52 AM


Re: days and dates
DOCJ writes:

They were not direct descendants in every scenario.


You would need to show that, not just assert it. The text doesn't support it.

DOCJ writes:

Genesis 1:1 is where the universe was created. It does represent billions of years.


The text doesn't support that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by DOCJ, posted 08-19-2017 10:52 AM DOCJ has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by DOCJ, posted 08-19-2017 1:52 PM ringo has replied
 Message 361 by DOCJ, posted 08-19-2017 3:34 PM ringo has replied

  
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