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Author Topic:   Creation
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 606 of 1482 (829711)
03-12-2018 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by ICANT
03-12-2018 12:50 PM


Re: Bible
ICANT writes:

By the way the distance is not expanding between the Milky Way galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy. They are on a collision course

Since they are on a collision course they could not have been produce out of the same BB. If they had been the space would be increasing between them instead of decreasing.

The space between them is expanding, but the force of gravity is stronger at this distance and is attracting them toward each other at a higher rate than the rate of expansion.

ICANT writes:

The distance between objects in the Milky Way varies from time to time due to their orbital routes they take. But the space between those objects does not continue to increase at all times.

Galaxies like the Milky Way and Andromeda remain as discrete objects in the Universe rather than flying apart because gravitational attraction exerts enough force to counter rotation and universal expansion.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by ICANT, posted 03-12-2018 12:50 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 612 by ICANT, posted 03-20-2018 1:42 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 615 of 1482 (830062)
03-20-2018 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 612 by ICANT
03-20-2018 1:42 PM


Re: Bible
Tanypteryx writes:

The space between them is expanding, but the force of gravity is stronger at this distance and is attracting them toward each other at a higher rate than the rate of expansion.

Could you explain in detail how something can be expanding and contracting at the same time?

No, I cannot, because that is not what I said is happening. The expansion of the Universe does not keep objects in the Universe from moving in relation to each other within the Universe. If I am on a plane traveling at 300 mph, that doesn't stop me from walking in the opposite direction to the restroom in the rear of the plane.

The mutual gravitational attraction between two masses (Milky Way and Andromeda) is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of their separation distance. These two galaxies have enough mass and are close enough for their mutual gravitational attraction to pull them toward each other at a faster rate than the expansion of the space between them.

If the Universe is expanding at X miles per second and gravity is attracting 2 objects at X+n miles per second, then the 2 objects will get closer to each other over time.

Are you saying that the Milky Way and Andromeda are like a north and south magnet with the ability to attract each other over a distance that would take light 2.5 million years to travel?

Nope, I didn't say anything about magnets. I'm saying that the Milky Way and Andromeda have enough mass and are close enough (2.5 million light years in this case) for their mutual gravitational attraction to cause them to approach each other at a higher speed than the speed of expansion of the Universe.

How much matter would be required to produce that much gravitational attraction?

Obviously, as much matter as is in these 2 galaxies. Remember, it is the product of their masses. The mass of the Milky Way multiplied by the mass of Andromeda divided by the square of their distance.

where F is the force due to gravity, between two masses (m1 and m2), which are a distance r apart; G is the gravitational constant.
.

If that is what is causing the Milky Way and Andromeda to be on a collision course why aren't all galaxies on a collision course with IC1101 which extends about 2 million light years from its core?

All galaxies are attracted to it, and to each other, but the inverse square law says the further they are from each other the weaker the attraction. The expansion rate of the Universe is higher than the rate they are attracted to each other by gravity. There may be galaxies that are close enough to IC1101 that their mutual gravitational attraction causes them to overcome the expansion rate of the Universe and move closer to each other.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 612 by ICANT, posted 03-20-2018 1:42 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 631 of 1482 (830541)
04-02-2018 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 629 by ICANT
04-02-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Bible
ICANT writes:

ringo writes:

As I said, it is not expanding in a "forward direction". You're misunderstanding the pictures.

No I am not misunderstanding the pictures. It actually shows the universe expanding in a forward direction.

It does not show the universe expanding in every direction at the same time.

I am not sure what pictures you are referring to, but maybe it is this one.

This is a 2 dimensional graphic representation of 3 dimensional space that also tries to illustrate the passage of time.

It is not intended to be an image of what the Universe actually looks like. The 3 spacial dimensions of the Universe would look spherical, but the arrow of time passes in one direction, from past to future, and is impossible to illustrate in 2 dimensional artwork.

The picture is just an attempt to illustrate what is happening in the Universe at different points in the progression of time.

ICANT writes:

ringo writes:

That is what the pictures are meant to show. What you see as a "forward direction" is time.

But the universe is not expanding in a time related forward direction.

It is a sphere expanding in every possible direction simultaneously.

Therefore it should look like a sphere.

If you use a sphere to illustrate the history Universe you cannot show the passage of time. Mathematics may be able to describe what is happening in the Universe, but only those who understand the math can use it to draw a picture in their mind what is happening. The rest of us need some sort of actual picture to grasp the general idea.

ICANT writes:

It is a sphere expanding in every possible direction simultaneously.

Therefore it should look like a sphere.

OK, but time is a part of the Universe that does not expand in every possible direction so if you want to show it you need something more complex than a sphere.

Do you have a better picture that illustrates the history of the Universe?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by ICANT, posted 04-02-2018 1:29 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 634 by ICANT, posted 04-02-2018 8:42 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 643 of 1482 (830633)
04-04-2018 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 634 by ICANT
04-02-2018 8:42 PM


Re: Bible
ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

This is a 2 dimensional graphic representation of 3 dimensional space that also tries to illustrate the passage of time.

Why do you believe time only advances in a straight line in one direction only?

That is probably because you believe time is a dimension.

I didn't say a single thing about what I believe. I didn't say anything about time advancing in a straight line.

I simply explained that the picture is an attempt to show what has happened in the 3 spacial dimensions of the Universe since the big Bang.

ICANT writes:

Now are you telling me that only one of those quarks is traveling in the straight line of time.

Was this supposed to be a question? I am not telling you anything about quarks. I have not said anything about "the straight line of time."

ICANT writes:

Making the other 3 not experience duration.
Now add all the other trillion trillion trillion trillions of quarks all heading in a different direction.

When you keep talking about the direction of time it seems that you are the one talking about time being a dimension.

The 3 spacial dimensions have "directions" but you seem to be thinking of time the same way.

Time seems to be a characteristic that is built into space, but past, present and future is not a direction in space.

ICANT writes:

Did time exist in only the direction of 1 quark?

Once again, time does not have a spacial dimension.

ICANT writes:

Just maybe time is not a dimension and is only a concept devised by mankind to measure duration between events.

Does time=duration?

I suppose that even primitive humans noticed that everything didn't happen at once and realized that the passage of time is a feature of their world. Eventually people discovered that time must be a feature that is as real a part of the universe as all of the other features and that all those other features cannot be studied and defined without including time.

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

If you use a sphere to illustrate the history Universe you cannot show the passage of time.

Sure you can if you are only measuring duration between events using time.

How else would you measure the duration between events? Where is your picture of a sphere illustrating the spacial dimensions and the passage of time? You said "sure you can," so lets see it.

ICANT writes:

Events happen all over the place and none of them at the same place twice. Everything is in constant motion.

What does this even mean and what does it have to do with this discussion?

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

If you use a sphere to illustrate the history Universe you cannot show the passage of time. Mathematics may be able to describe what is happening in the Universe, but only those who understand the math can use it to draw a picture in their mind what is happening. The rest of us need some sort of actual picture to grasp the general idea.

There you go hiding behind math. Math is only figures devised by mankind. Figures don't lie but involve a man and he can make them lie.

There you go spouting gibberish. In what way am I hiding behind math? What does that even mean?

Math is a tool that can be used to describe features of the Universe and to make predictions and you just sound like frustrated child who doesn't understand what the adults are talking about.

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

Do you have a better picture that illustrates the history of the Universe?

Only in my mind and I can not put it into words or draw a picture.

That's why math is such a great tool.

ICANT writes:

I only know if the BBT is correct the universe has to be a sphere that is expanding in every possible direction simultaneously.

Yep, so?

ICANT writes:

Since you believe time is a dimension of the universe and can only advance in one direction you have a problem.

So now you are a mind reader? Sorry, you are mistaken.

My understanding is that time is a feature of the Universe and that it exists everywhere.

ICANT writes:

Time has to advance in every possible direction simultaneously.
Because no matter where you are in the universe and you look toward the pin point it all started you are looking back in time.

As I already said, time is a feature of the Universe and exists everywhere. My understanding is that the Universe is the pinpoint and that there is no point that we can point our telescopes at that is the Big Bang point.

Wherever we look in the Universe we are looking back in time and the further away we are looking the further back in time we are looking. So rather than searching for a point that is the Big Bang, we are looking toward the Big Bang when we look toward the boundary of the expanding sphere of the Universe. An amazing concept, huh?

ICANT writes:

Has the thought ever occurred to you that time might not be a dimension?

Yep.

ICANT writes:

My definition of time is and always has been.
Time is a concept of mankind based on the rotation of the earth in relation with the sun. That rotation taking almost 24 hours as determined by mankind. That 24 hours with each hour being divided into 60 minutes which is divided into 60 seconds per minute etc..
This measurement is then taken and used to measure the duration between events in reality.

There you go, hiding behind rotation of the earth.

ICANT writes:

Now if you think time is a dimension please explain what it is and how you can measure it.

I don't. I was just trying to explain why the artist made that picture look that way to try and illustrate the idea of how the Universe changes over time. No one, including the artist is saying that Universe actually looks like that.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 634 by ICANT, posted 04-02-2018 8:42 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 646 of 1482 (830649)
04-04-2018 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 634 by ICANT
04-02-2018 8:42 PM


Re: Bible
ICANT writes:

I will give an illustration using 4 quarks only. We start with 4 quarks at T=0 The single point that all the universe is crammed into something the size of a pin point.

How do you know there were 4 quarks at T=0? What kind of quarks? Can you describe all the properties of the quarks?

ICANT writes:

These 4 quarks begin to leave the pin point all going in a direction like a plus sign, at the speed of light. 10 minutes later they would be a long ways apart.

Why do these 4 quarks leave the pinpoint? What the heck is a direction like a plus sign? Why are they going at the speed of light? How did you measure 10 minutes?

ICANT writes:

Now add all the other trillion trillion trillion trillions of quarks all heading in a different direction.

Wait, I thought there were only 4 quarks. Where did you get a trillion trillion trillion trillions of quarks? Why are they all heading in a different direction than the 4 quarks?

What does any of this have to do with the picture?

ICANT writes:

Did time exist in only the direction of 1 quark?

How many directions are there? Can 2 quarks travel in the same direction?

ICANT writes:

Just maybe time is not a dimension and is only a concept devised by mankind to measure duration between events.

Maybe time is a feature of the Universe and mankind discovered that it can be used to measure the duration of events, just like we discovered that the speed of light can be used, with time, to measure distance in the 3 spacial dimensions. I know it scares you, but we have to use math.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 634 by ICANT, posted 04-02-2018 8:42 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by ICANT, posted 04-06-2018 5:29 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 653 of 1482 (830771)
04-06-2018 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 649 by ICANT
04-06-2018 4:49 PM


Re: Bible
ICANT writes:

Time can be rewound. Time is a concept invented by mankind to to measure duration between events in eternity. Time is not a dimension.

Can you give an example of time being rewound?

Time is a feature of the Universe "discovered by humans." We ""invented" a way to measure the duration between events. I have no idea why you added "in eternity."

ICANT writes:

You can measure length, height, and width which are dimensions.

How do you measure time if it is a dimension?

We measure all 4 of these things with artificial scales that we invented, i.e. millimeters, meters, kilometers, days, hours, minutes, seconds.

So, are length, height, and width always the same directions or does it depend on their orientation relative to the observer? Is a direction in between say, length and height another dimension.

Why is it important to you that time not be a dimension?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by ICANT, posted 04-06-2018 4:49 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2018 2:33 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 664 of 1482 (831993)
04-28-2018 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 656 by ICANT
04-25-2018 2:33 AM


Re: Bible
ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

Can you give an example of time being rewound?

The Twin Paradox rewinds it for one twin. Because it is said the closer you get to the speed of light the slower times goes and when you go faster than the speed of light you will go back in time.

But then I may be misunderstanding those statements that have been made on this site.

You have a strange definition of "rewind." You seem to think that going slower and going in reverse are the same thing.

Who says "when you go faster than the speed of light you will go back in time?"

ICANT writes:

But then I may be misunderstanding those statements that have been made on this site.

True.

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

Time is a feature of the Universe "discovered by humans." We ""invented" a way to measure the duration between events. I have no idea why you added "in eternity."

If time is a feature of the universe explain exactly what it is.

I can't explain "exactly" what it is, but I think there are physicists who can. It's likely I would not understand their explanation, but I am convinced that the term "spacetime" is an accurate description of a feature of our Universe.

ICANT writes:

How do you measure duration between events? A stop watch, clocks of different kinds. Those clocks, however they are tuned are based upon the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun.

I have no idea what this has to do with whether time is a feature of the Universe or not.

ICANT writes:

Existence has to be eternal as existence could not have a beginning to exist from non-existence. Existence has duration between events continually.

So, you continue to throw in stuff that is meaningless gibberish for some reason that I cannot fathom. The random spot in space cannot be seen from the far side of Saturn because it was red yesterday.

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

We measure all 4 of these things with artificial scales that we invented, i.e. millimeters, meters, kilometers, days, hours, minutes, seconds.

Why did you add days, hours, minutes, and seconds in that sentence?

For the same reason I added millimeters, meters, kilometers, as examples of some of the measurement scales we have invented. We could just as easily use scales with higher frequency and that do not show signs of changing rates.

ICANT writes:

A period of light is called a day.
A period of light and a period of darkness is called a day.
The light, and dark periods are controlled by the revolutions of the earth in relation to the sun.
Mankind divided that light period and dark period into 24 hours, of 60 minutes each, with 60 seconds each.

Really?

ICANT writes:

So my question is what exactly is the dimension you call time?

So my question is what exactly is the dimension you call space?

ICANT writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

So, are length, height, and width always the same directions or does it depend on their orientation relative to the observer?

If you take a 2 x 4 that is 96" long the 96" measurement will always be the same as will the 2" and 4" measurements.

You can change the orientation relative to yourself but the measurements will not change. But if you put the board in a wall the height is 96".lengths is 2" and width is 4".

If you put it down for a plate it will be 2" in height, 4" in width, and 96" in length.

So, are you saying the exact definition of the dimensions of space are measurements of height, width, and length?

ICANT writes:

But if time is a dimension you or at least someone should be able to tell me exactly what that dimension is.

No one has a problem with explaining what length, height, and width are as a dimension.

Ok, explain exactly what length is as a dimension in space and how can you be sure it is not width or height?

Have you ever heard of the "fabric of space?" Do you know what it is?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 656 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2018 2:33 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 999 of 1482 (841159)
10-08-2018 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 995 by ICANT
10-08-2018 2:17 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

It is not a dimension of the universe. If it was you should be able to measure it with length, width, height or depth.

So, the 4 dimensions are length, width, height and depth? I think you forgot here, now, then, and over there.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 995 by ICANT, posted 10-08-2018 2:17 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1000 by ringo, posted 10-08-2018 4:47 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded
 Message 1012 by ICANT, posted 10-09-2018 6:58 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1073 of 1482 (841610)
10-16-2018 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1072 by DrJones*
10-16-2018 2:23 PM


Re: Creation
Think of what happens if you shine an ultraviolet light on something, it will change color from what it was when it was exposed to white light. it is reflecting back some of the wavelengths of the ultraviolet light.

The shift in color we see when certain substances are exposed to ultraviolet light is fluorescence rather than reflection.

from Wikipedia:

quote:
Fluorescence is the emission of light by a substance that has absorbed light or other electromagnetic radiation. It is a form of luminescence. In most cases, the emitted light has a longer wavelength, and therefore lower energy, than the absorbed radiation. The most striking example of fluorescence occurs when the absorbed radiation is in the ultraviolet region of the spectrum, and thus invisible to the human eye, while the emitted light is in the visible region, which gives the fluorescent substance a distinct color that can be seen only when exposed to UV light. Fluorescent materials cease to glow nearly immediately when the radiation source stops, unlike phosphorescent materials, which continue to emit light for some time after.

A few years ago I was camped in SE Arizona with friends and we were using UV lights to attract insects. We could see many scorpions running around because they glowed (fluoresced) bright bluish green. We were bent over watching one large scorpion when it suddenly reached up and grabbed a moth out of the air that had been attracted to our blacklight.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by DrJones*, posted 10-16-2018 2:23 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1174 of 1482 (842525)
11-02-2018 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1169 by ICANT
11-02-2018 1:34 AM


Re: Creation
If the head river was big enough to feed 4 rivers to water the entire earth there would have been enough evaporation to cause rain.

I'm just curious, can you show a case where a large river flows into 4 smaller rivers?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1169 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 1:34 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 1217 of 1482 (842829)
11-08-2018 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1214 by creation
11-08-2018 3:42 PM


Re: Creation
Noah knew when he saw that fresh leaf from a tree that the thousands of animals were no able to leave the ark. Fast growing grass and trees mean lots of food now. That is the best interpretation.

Fiction is the best explanation.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1214 by creation, posted 11-08-2018 3:42 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1230 by creation, posted 11-19-2018 1:59 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1218 of 1482 (842831)
11-08-2018 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1216 by creation
11-08-2018 3:45 PM


Re: Creation
Since sons of god are best interpreted as angels, that means spirits.

I thought humans were the sons of god? Why would that mean spirits?

I have always wondered, do you think angels are more closely related to birds (because they have feathers) or insects (because they have 3 pairs of appendages)?

Two arms, two legs, and two wings, how cool is that.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1216 by creation, posted 11-08-2018 3:45 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1225 by creation, posted 11-15-2018 8:04 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1237 of 1482 (843607)
11-19-2018 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1231 by creation
11-19-2018 2:00 PM


Re: Creation
If we assumed nature was the same you might have a point. Too bad you need a reason to do so. Got any?

So far you haven't given us not to do so.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1231 by creation, posted 11-19-2018 2:00 PM creation has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 1387 of 1482 (845431)
12-15-2018 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1382 by ICANT
12-15-2018 2:06 PM


Re: Creation
For something that happened 13.7 billion or more years ago that your search ends in a place math does not work and can't give any information you will never find the absolute truth for what happened, how, or why it happened

Well, some of us are not stopping our search for new observations of un-before-seen phenomena. We just want to spend our time trying to understand what caused the affects we see. We don't give a rat's ass about absolute truth.

The only thing you can do is to presume certain things happened because you believe that is what happened.

Nope, that's the only thing you can do.

We can keep studying and looking at ever expanding ranges of the electromagnetic spectrum. Now we are seeing just the beginning stages of the study of gravity waves. And all along the way we keep asking ourselves and each other "what kind of conditions would cause the phenomena we are observing?"

There are thousands of teams of scientists around the planet using thousands of different instruments observing the Universe from the largest scales of galactic super-clusters to the smallest grains of the quantum structure of the Universe. They hold every new observation up to see if it can shed any light on a bunch of questions. Besides having some nifty new instruments we also have cutting edge technology communication systems and computer search and modelling capabilities. Building on the newest discoveries and experiments science in physics is advancing at an unprecedented rate. Filling in blanks and creating new blanks is what we do.

We are not going to stop looking for answers, because your absolute truth is so boringly unsatisfying.

Science and scientists are not interested in absolute truth, rather we search for unanswered questions and improving our understanding of reality. You have demonstrated that you can never understand that.

So here you are, "You guys can never figure out the absolute truth and I say you should be able to tell me the absolute truth and if you can't tell me the absolute truth you are bad and I will not let you try and tell me anything else because the absolute truth is all that matters."

And we are "Why are you still asking that? We keep telling you we are not interested the absolute truth. We keep saying that we are not going to look for the absolute truth. We keep telling you that your absolute truth is no help in understanding the Universe."

We have discovered that we cannot use your absolute truth as a foundation for science, so don't worry, we will not be stealing any of your material when we hypothesize.

Just to be absolutely clear, the absolute truth is NOT part of the scientific method.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1382 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 2:06 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1391 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 6:41 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2787
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1392 of 1482 (845440)
12-15-2018 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1391 by ICANT
12-15-2018 6:41 PM


Re: Creation
Sorry to hear that. If you never find the absolute truth you will never get any factual information.

Well, I'm happy to report that you are completely incorrect about that, but you still don't get this simple concept. Absolute truth is religious mumbojumbo, absolute truth is not part of the scientific method, absolute truth has never been part of the scientific method, and absolute truth will never be part of the scientific method.

The scientific method since it was first defined as a methodical way to study and understand things has been a highly successful way to gain knowledge. If you think you can convince science and scientists to change how they do science and report the results, don't hold your breath.

So why waste the resources and time trying to find something you are not even looking for

Was this a question or a statement? I never waste resources.

Would it not be better to spent the resources and time trying to solve the problems of the world in which we live. Like the food problem, medical problems, diseases that kill and cripple people? Just a thought

Nope. You can do whatever you want with your resources.

There are enough resources to do science and solve human issues. You guys aren't successfully doing either one.

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1391 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 6:41 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1395 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 1:46 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded
 Message 1409 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 8:46 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
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