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# Creation

Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007

 Message 1036 of 1482 (841282) 10-11-2018 12:04 AM Reply to: Message 1031 by ringo10-10-2018 5:21 PM

Re: Creation
Hi ringo,

 ringo writes:I've told that joke many times and nobody but you has ever had any trouble understanding it. There's plenty of information.

InMessage 1000 you said:

 ringo writes:Blonde joke:ICANT says to his blonde assistant, "We need to measure the height of this flagpole but I can't figure out how to get up there."The blonde takes a wrench, undoes a couple of bolts and lays the flagpole down on the ground. Then she takes a tape measure, stretches it out and announces, "Fourteen feet and eight inches."ICANT stands there shaking his head, "Typical blonde. I ask her for the height and she gives me the length."

2 bolts means the 14' 8" pole was supported in two directions. It would need four bolts to be supported where it would not fall in a little breeze.

If it was bolted to an object that was buried in the ground two bolts would be sufficient.

But why bother taking the pole down.

 ringo writes:How do you propose to line up the end of your tape measure with the top of the pole from 14' - 8" away?

I would pull out about 10' of tape and run it up the pole until the tape was at the top of the pole. I would press the tape with my left hand 6' off the ground and pull out more tape that I could fold at the bottom of the pole. I would read the tape and announce the height of the pole to be 14' 8".

BTW Just so you know I can extend my tape 8' straight out from my body without it bending so there is no problem extending it 8' above my head.

 ringo writes:All I have to do is rotate it 90º.

So rotate the Empire Building 90 degrees and tell me how long it is.

The Empire State Building is 424 feet long or wide on 34th st which ever suits you. The depth is 187 feet on 5th Av and it stands 1454 feet high from ground to tip.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 This message is a reply to: Message 1031 by ringo, posted 10-10-2018 5:21 PM ringo has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1042 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 12:05 PM ICANT has responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007

 Message 1037 of 1482 (841287) 10-11-2018 3:12 AM Reply to: Message 1035 by DrJones*10-10-2018 11:15 PM

Re: Creation
Hi Dr,

 Dr writes:do you understand the red ochre is not light?

I even know what ochre is.

Ochre is a natural pigment from yellow to deep orange or brown. Used throughout history, these permanent pigments can be safely mixed with other pigments.

Red ochre is a variant of ochre containing a large amount of hematite, or dehydrated iron oxide, has a reddish tint known as "red ochre"

If I understand why I see different colors it is that light waves reflect off objects and hit the light-sensitive retina at the back of my eye. That's where cones come in. Cones are one type of photoreceptor, the tiny cells in the retina that respond to light.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 This message is a reply to: Message 1035 by DrJones*, posted 10-10-2018 11:15 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

creation
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017

 Message 1038 of 1482 (841305) 10-11-2018 9:26 AM Reply to: Message 981 by ringo10-06-2018 12:10 PM

Re: Creation
The sun rose also when a year was 360 days. Looking at the sun rise now will not tell you how long a year used to be.
 This message is a reply to: Message 981 by ringo, posted 10-06-2018 12:10 PM ringo has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1040 by JonF, posted 10-11-2018 9:51 AM creation has not yet responded Message 1043 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 12:08 PM creation has responded

JonF
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Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0

 Message 1039 of 1482 (841310) 10-11-2018 9:48 AM Reply to: Message 1033 by ICANT10-10-2018 10:06 PM

Re: Creation
 You can't swap the two methods so you do need to understand a little about what you are measuring

Yep. We do understand a little. We know we can measure something repeatedly, replicate measurements and experiments, and develop a coherent theory of how it acts. That's enough.

 So Galileo was trying to figure out why something dropped.

You really should not shoot your mouth off about the many things of which you are totally ignorant.

No, Galileo was not trying to figure out why something dropped. He was trying to characterize in what manner things dropped under different circumstances. Part of developing a coherent theory of how it acts. As we have done for time.

 This message is a reply to: Message 1033 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2018 10:06 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

JonF
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Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0

 (1)
 Message 1040 of 1482 (841311) 10-11-2018 9:51 AM Reply to: Message 1038 by creation10-11-2018 9:26 AM

Re: Creation
 The sun rose also when a year was 360 days. Looking at the sun rise now will not tell you how long a year used to be.

Congratulations! That's true.

That's also why nobody is stupid enough to look at the Sun rising now and trying to figure out how long a day was in the past.

 This message is a reply to: Message 1038 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:26 AM creation has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5

 Message 1041 of 1482 (841316) 10-11-2018 11:41 AM Reply to: Message 1034 by ICANT10-10-2018 10:23 PM

Re: Creation
 ICANT writes:I used a light that had a red bulb and red lens to get the pink reflection on the white cloth. I can put the Red ochre on the white cloth and it will not cause the surrounding area to reflect pink. In fact white will begin at the edge of the red ochre.

Again, you're proving my point. It's only the light that is red and that is only because of its wavelength. Different wavelengths interact with our eyes differently, which is why we see different colors. Different wavelengths also interact differently with different substances, so we wouldn't expect the same red light to reflect in the same way from red ochre and from white cloth.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

 This message is a reply to: Message 1034 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2018 10:23 PM ICANT has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1044 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2018 7:26 PM ringo has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5

 Message 1042 of 1482 (841319) 10-11-2018 12:05 PM Reply to: Message 1036 by ICANT10-11-2018 12:04 AM

Re: Creation
 ICANT writes:2 bolts means the 14' 8" pole was supported in two directions.

No it doesn't. It means that the upper part of the pole was hinged. In Message 1014 JonF gave you the link http://www.poletech.com/tiltingpoles.aspx which shows pretty clearly how it works.

In fact, in that example there is only one locking bolt, so she would only have had to remove one bolt.

 ICANT writes:But why bother taking the pole down.

In the joke, the ICANT character couldn't figure out how to measure the pole. Presumably he had already tried your way and it didn't work. Maybe he didn't have a stiff enough tape measure with him that day.

Again, the point of the joke is that he couldn't see any other point of view that wasn't already carved in stone in his brain. You're just reinforcing that point.

 ICANT writes:I would pull out about 10' of tape and run it up the pole until the tape was at the top of the pole. I would press the tape with my left hand 6' off the ground and pull out more tape that I could fold at the bottom of the pole. I would read the tape and announce the height of the pole to be 14' 8".

I asked how you would line up the end of your tape with the top of the pole. That's hard enough to do accurately from two feet away.

 ICANT writes:BTW Just so you know I can extend my tape 8' straight out from my body without it bending so there is no problem extending it 8' above my head.

Try doing that in the wind.

And again, in the joke, the ICANT character couldn't figure out how to do it. Everything he had tried had failed.

 ICANT writes:So rotate the Empire Building 90 degrees and tell me how long it is.The Empire State Building is 424 feet long or wide on 34th st which ever suits you.

You point out the flaw in your own question. The length or width are whatever suits me. The dimensions are interchangeable. You have to specify more than "width" or 'length" if you want an accurate answer.

 ICANT writes:The depth is 187 feet on 5th Av....

In English, we would seldom use the word "depth" that way.

Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

 This message is a reply to: Message 1036 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2018 12:04 AM ICANT has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1045 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2018 7:46 PM ringo has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5

 Message 1043 of 1482 (841320) 10-11-2018 12:08 PM Reply to: Message 1038 by creation10-11-2018 9:26 AM

Re: Creation
 creation writes:Looking at the sun rise now will not tell you how long a year used to be.

So how do you determine how long a year "used to be"?

Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

 This message is a reply to: Message 1038 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:26 AM creation has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1046 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2018 7:48 PM ringo has responded Message 1047 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 11:24 PM ringo has responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007

 Message 1044 of 1482 (841367) 10-11-2018 7:26 PM Reply to: Message 1041 by ringo10-11-2018 11:41 AM

Re: Creation
Hi ringo,

 ringo writes:Again, you're proving my point. It's only the light that is red and that is only because of its wavelength. Different wavelengths interact with our eyes differently, which is why we see different colors. Different wavelengths also interact differently with different substances, so we wouldn't expect the same red light to reflect in the same way from red ochre and from white cloth.

The human eye picks up the colors if the person is not color blind.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 This message is a reply to: Message 1041 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 11:41 AM ringo has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1049 by ringo, posted 10-12-2018 11:42 AM ICANT has responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007

 Message 1045 of 1482 (841370) 10-11-2018 7:46 PM Reply to: Message 1042 by ringo10-11-2018 12:05 PM

Re: Creation
Hi ringo,

 ringo writes:In the joke, the ICANT character couldn't figure out how to measure the pole. Presumably he had already tried your way and it didn't work. Maybe he didn't have a stiff enough tape measure with him that day.

Then you should have used someone else's name as I am a contractor that drew my own blueprints.

 ringo writes:I asked how you would line up the end of your tape with the top of the pole. That's hard enough to do accurately from two feet away.

Then you have never built as many things as I have and made hundreds of those kind of measurements.

 ringo writes:Try doing that in the wind.And again, in the joke, the ICANT character couldn't figure out how to do it. Everything he had tried had failed.

In the wind is no problem just use the 35 foot tape which has a 1 1/4 inch wide tape. The 25' tape has a 1" wide tape.

If that fails just hang the 6' T bar over the top of the pole and measure to the base of the pole add the 72 inches to what the tape reads at the bottom of the T bar and you got the answer.

 ringo writes:You point out the flaw in your own question. The length or width are whatever suits me. The dimensions are interchangeable. You have to specify more than "width" or 'length" if you want an accurate answer.

Neither the (width) length or depth are interchangeable with the height of the Empire State Building.

 ringo writes:In English, we would seldom use the word "depth" that way.

I take it you have never worked around a construction project.

I am going to assume you have cabinets in your kitchen.

Pick out any cabinet in the kitchen and give me the width, height, and depth of that cabinet.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 This message is a reply to: Message 1042 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 12:05 PM ringo has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1050 by ringo, posted 10-12-2018 12:05 PM ICANT has responded

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007

 Message 1046 of 1482 (841371) 10-11-2018 7:48 PM Reply to: Message 1043 by ringo10-11-2018 12:08 PM

Re: Creation
Hi ringo,

 ringo writes:So how do you determine how long a year "used to be"?

Isn't that determined by the duration it takes the earth to go around the sun?

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

 This message is a reply to: Message 1043 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 12:08 PM ringo has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1051 by ringo, posted 10-12-2018 12:07 PM ICANT has responded

creation
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017

 Message 1047 of 1482 (841377) 10-11-2018 11:24 PM Reply to: Message 1043 by ringo10-11-2018 12:08 PM

Re: Creation
Scripture
 This message is a reply to: Message 1043 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 12:08 PM ringo has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1048 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 11:24 PM creation has not yet responded Message 1052 by ringo, posted 10-12-2018 12:10 PM creation has responded

creation
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017

 Message 1048 of 1482 (841378) 10-11-2018 11:24 PM Reply to: Message 1047 by creation10-11-2018 11:24 PM

Re: Creation
Guess that was not the same.
 This message is a reply to: Message 1047 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 11:24 PM creation has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5

 Message 1049 of 1482 (841405) 10-12-2018 11:42 AM Reply to: Message 1044 by ICANT10-11-2018 7:26 PM

Re: Creation
 ICANT writes:The human eye picks up the colors if the person is not color blind.

And the human eye works on light. If a certain wavelength of light is captured by the eye, it doesn't matter whether that light came from a red ochre pigment or a red light bulb. The same red is seen the same way. There is no "red" in the ochre or the light bulb. The red is the wavelength of the light - i.e. it is a property of the light.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

 This message is a reply to: Message 1044 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2018 7:26 PM ICANT has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1058 by ICANT, posted 10-13-2018 4:43 PM ringo has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 17281
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5

 Message 1050 of 1482 (841407) 10-12-2018 12:05 PM Reply to: Message 1045 by ICANT10-11-2018 7:46 PM

Re: Creation
 ICANT writes:Then you should have used someone else's name as I am a contractor that drew my own blueprints.

I used your name because you're the one who doesn't understand measurement.

 ICANT writes:Then you have never built as many things as I have and made hundreds of those kind of measurements.

Nonsense. Nobody can line up a tape measure with the end of a pole accurately from fourteen feet away. Your eye needs to be orthogonal to the tip of the pole and the end of the tape measure.

 ICANT writes:If that fails just hang the 6' T bar over the top of the pole ....

There is no T bar in the story.

 ICANT writes:Neither the (width) length or depth are interchangeable with the height of the Empire State Building.

I didn't say they were. I said the length and width were interchangeable with each other.

But with a rectangular box, the height might well be interchangeable too. When you set it on its "bottom", the "length" is end-to-end. If you set it on "end" to sit on it, the "height" is what used to be the "length".

 ICANT writes:I take it you have never worked around a construction project.

Wrong again. I come from generations of carpenters. Many of them didn't understand much English but they understood measurement better than you do.

 ICANT writes:Pick out any cabinet in the kitchen and give me the width, height, and depth of that cabinet.

A cabinet does have depth. It's like a hole in the wall. Hollow objects have depth - the depth of the hollow.

The "depth" of the Empire State Building would be the depth of its basement(s) or the depth of its foundations, which are part of its overall height. For a solid object, the width or length would not be called "depth".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

 This message is a reply to: Message 1045 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2018 7:46 PM ICANT has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 1061 by ICANT, posted 10-13-2018 5:13 PM ringo has responded

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