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Author Topic:   Creation
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1381 of 1482 (845392)
12-15-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1380 by Phat
12-15-2018 11:34 AM


Re: Creation
Phat writes:
And who says we have to "reach" absolute truth?
ICANT does. He says he has reached absolute truth. How can he possibly know a destination exists if he hasn't been there?
Phat writes:
Perhaps absolute truth reaches us.
Are moving destinations anything like moving goalposts?
Phat writes:
You won't make a move until all of the facts are in.
What about ANY facts?
Phat writes:
Are you satisfied to simply wait?
I'm satisfied to wait until a bridge exists before I try to cross it. A "leap of faith" my be inspiring in some situations but in most situations it's just plain stupid.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1380 by Phat, posted 12-15-2018 11:34 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1383 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 2:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1382 of 1482 (845400)
12-15-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1379 by ringo
12-15-2018 11:24 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
Objective evidence. Apologists have all kinds of excuses for why it doesn't work.
Everybody has an opinion about everything and prayer is no exception.
Please give me what you would consider objective evidence of an answered prayer.
ringo writes:
But you claimed that there is such a thing as absolute truth. To reach absolute truth, you'd need to have ALL of the facts, not just some facts. How can you know when you have all of the facts?
I believe we have all the facts we need to prove the universe exists. What other facts would we need for it to be an absolute truth?
But when you are talking about something that happened 13.7 billion years ago with no witnesses and all the information you have is the assumption that something took place because it fits what you believe and seems to be the best fit is not an absolute truth. Because you have no evidence.
There is a huge building at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500. We call that building the White House. It is an absolute truth that building exists as I have seen it.
Do you disagree that the White House's existence is an absolute truth?
Your problem with absolute truth is that you nor the scientific community has any that support the BBT or any other hypothesis concerning the beginning to exist of the universe even though they know it exists.
ringo writes:
For all intents and purposes, facts ARE what is believed to be true at any given time. We can not be sure that a "fact" will never change.
Fact you are alive. That can change in only one way you die.
Fact the universe exists. That can change with the universe ceasing to exist due to burning up with fervent heat.
Your being alive is a fact. Your death would be a fact.
Existence is a fact. Non existence is not a fact because there is existence.
ringo writes:
ICANT writes:
A fact is a thing that is indisputably true.
Nothing is indisputable.
Put your brain into gear before you speak or type. That is the definition of fact.
Example: The universe exists. Dispute that.
ringo writes:
The best explanation IS the best explanation. It may well turn out to not be "true" - Newtonian physics, for example.
And since it turned out to be false it was not the best explanation. Misinformed, and deluded people just believed it and had faith it was the best explanation.
ringo writes:
"Science doesn't search for absolute truth because it isn't possible to know when we've found it.
Are you telling me that the universe existing is not a scientific fact?
ringo writes:
"Science doesn't search for absolute truth because it isn't possible to know when we've found it.
When you have found equivalent evidence for something as there is for the universe existing you have found the absolute truth.
For something that happened 13.7 billion or more years ago that your search ends in a place math does not work and can't give any information you will never find the absolute truth for what happened, how, or why it happened. The only thing you can do is to presume certain things happened because you believe that is what happened.
So everything you have been taught or read about the beginning to exist of the universe is faith based and you have no more evidence for what you believe as I do by accepting by Faith God created the universe like He said he did.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1379 by ringo, posted 12-15-2018 11:24 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1384 by ringo, posted 12-15-2018 2:38 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1387 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-15-2018 4:21 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1383 of 1482 (845404)
12-15-2018 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1381 by ringo
12-15-2018 11:40 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
ICANT does. He says he has reached absolute truth. How can he possibly know a destination exists if he hasn't been there?
You may be closer to the truth than you realize.
But there are absolute truths.
The earth exists.
The sun exists.
The moon exists.
The stars exist.
The lazyboy chair I am sitting in exists.
The keyboard I am typing on exists.
The computer screen I am seeing what I type appear on exists.
The computer I am using exists.
The TV in front of me that Tulane and Louisiana are playing a football game exists.
I could name all kinds of thing that exist in the room I am in exists.
Everyone of these things absolutely exist making it an absolute truth they exist I can see them, touch them, and feel them.
ringo are you just being deliberately obtuse concerning absolute truth not existing? I won't finish the first part of the quote from Columbo.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1381 by ringo, posted 12-15-2018 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1385 by ringo, posted 12-15-2018 2:40 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1388 by AZPaul3, posted 12-15-2018 4:50 PM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1384 of 1482 (845405)
12-15-2018 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1382 by ICANT
12-15-2018 2:06 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
Please give me what you would consider objective evidence of an answered prayer.
The reason there is no objective evidence is because it would be impossible to establish a clear cause-effect link between the prayer and the event.
ICANT writes:
I believe we have all the facts we need to prove the universe exists. What other facts would we need for it to be an absolute truth?
Unless you can be 100% sure that you're not hallucinating this entire conversation, you have no "absolute truth".
ICANT writes:
It is an absolute truth that building exists as I have seen it.
On two separate occasions I have seen two moons in the sky at the same time, so I don't trust eyewitness testimony - even if it's my own.
ICANT writes:
Do you disagree that the White House's existence is an absolute truth?
Of course I do, just like I disagree that two moons are an absolute truth.
ICANT writes:
Existence is a fact. Non existence is not a fact because there is existence.
Existence is not a thing. It's property of things.
ICANT writes:
The universe exists. Dispute that.
You could be hallucinating this entire conversation.
ICANT writes:
And since it turned out to be false it was not the best explanation.
Of course it was. It was the best explanation at the time. Walking was the best form of transportation that we had until we discovered better ones.
ICANT writes:
Misinformed, and deluded people just believed it and had faith it was the best explanation.
Nonsense. Newton was neither misinformed nor deluded.
ICANT writes:
Are you telling me that the universe existing is not a scientific fact?
There's a difference between scientific fact and absolute truth. Scientific fact is the best information that we have at any given time. Absolute truth is unattainable because time keeps moving forward and we keep adding new information.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1382 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 2:06 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1389 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 5:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1385 of 1482 (845406)
12-15-2018 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1383 by ICANT
12-15-2018 2:31 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
Everyone of these things absolutely exist making it an absolute truth they exist I can see them, touch them, and feel them.
Or you might be hallucinating.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1383 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 2:31 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1386 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 3:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 1386 of 1482 (845427)
12-15-2018 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1385 by ringo
12-15-2018 2:40 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
Or you might be hallucinating.
Are you that stupid or are you deliberately being that obtuse.
If anyone is hallucinating it is ringo.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1385 by ringo, posted 12-15-2018 2:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1393 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 1:11 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1387 of 1482 (845431)
12-15-2018 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1382 by ICANT
12-15-2018 2:06 PM


Re: Creation
For something that happened 13.7 billion or more years ago that your search ends in a place math does not work and can't give any information you will never find the absolute truth for what happened, how, or why it happened
Well, some of us are not stopping our search for new observations of un-before-seen phenomena. We just want to spend our time trying to understand what caused the affects we see. We don't give a rat's ass about absolute truth.
The only thing you can do is to presume certain things happened because you believe that is what happened.
Nope, that's the only thing you can do.
We can keep studying and looking at ever expanding ranges of the electromagnetic spectrum. Now we are seeing just the beginning stages of the study of gravity waves. And all along the way we keep asking ourselves and each other "what kind of conditions would cause the phenomena we are observing?"
There are thousands of teams of scientists around the planet using thousands of different instruments observing the Universe from the largest scales of galactic super-clusters to the smallest grains of the quantum structure of the Universe. They hold every new observation up to see if it can shed any light on a bunch of questions. Besides having some nifty new instruments we also have cutting edge technology communication systems and computer search and modelling capabilities. Building on the newest discoveries and experiments science in physics is advancing at an unprecedented rate. Filling in blanks and creating new blanks is what we do.
We are not going to stop looking for answers, because your absolute truth is so boringly unsatisfying.
Science and scientists are not interested in absolute truth, rather we search for unanswered questions and improving our understanding of reality. You have demonstrated that you can never understand that.
So here you are, "You guys can never figure out the absolute truth and I say you should be able to tell me the absolute truth and if you can't tell me the absolute truth you are bad and I will not let you try and tell me anything else because the absolute truth is all that matters."
And we are "Why are you still asking that? We keep telling you we are not interested the absolute truth. We keep saying that we are not going to look for the absolute truth. We keep telling you that your absolute truth is no help in understanding the Universe."
We have discovered that we cannot use your absolute truth as a foundation for science, so don't worry, we will not be stealing any of your material when we hypothesize.
Just to be absolutely clear, the absolute truth is NOT part of the scientific method.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1382 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 2:06 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1391 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 6:41 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1388 of 1482 (845434)
12-15-2018 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1383 by ICANT
12-15-2018 2:31 PM


Re: Creation
ringo are you just being deliberately obtuse concerning absolute truth not existing?
I don't believe he is, no.
The problem, ICANT, is this "absolute truth" verbiage.
In your world there may be such things but in science there can not be.
I concede that the Universe exists. I concede that the TV sitting in your room with you exists ... not as absolute truths but as scientific facts in which we have a very high degree of confidence. There is ample scientific evidence that both are real conglomerations of mass and energy.
But even though the degree of confidence in these facts is high and very strong there is a small possibility, vanishingly small to be sure, that, as ringo points out, these are illusions of the mind. The problem is that we cannot eliminate that possibility with absolute certainty. People have been known to hallucinate and there may alway be something we don't yet know that makes this whole universe an illusion.
Not very likely, but since the scenario cannot be totally eliminated with certainty science requires we keep the possibility open even as we accept that the conclusions we will operate on do not take this possibility into account. And the reason we can do that is because the preponderance of the facts are so strong vis-a-vis the small possibility of illusion for which there are very few facts we have a very high degree of confidence in the conclusions.
In the philosophy of science there is no such thing as absolute truth. There are only facts and reasonable assumptions with which we have varying degrees of confidence.
The universe exists. At one time, some 13.8 billion years ago the universe was of a size smaller than an atom. From that point the big bang happened. We know this as solid scientific fact. Copious evidence from observations of the universe and the workings of our two favorite physical theories which have been faithful to every test without fail, gives us a mighty strong confidence level of the efficacy of this fact.
How the universe got into this condensed condition, what happened prior to this condition, we do not know, yet. We have no facts, no theories, no reason to suppose anything, yet.
Note in the above analysis that the "illusion" scenario has at least some small very weak evidence to it. People hallucinate, are mislead by their own cognitive functions. There are some controversial speculations backed by some controversial math treatments within our two favorite theories that this whole thing may be but illusion. There is evidence, small and weak as it may be.
What there is no evidence for, none at all, is the speculation that some god popped the universe into existence or had anything at all to do with anything in this universe. There is no reason, even vanishingly small, to entertain the notion. No level of confidence need be assessed. It does not enter the picture in anyway. If some evidence is found, and verified, this may change. Until then, god is out.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1383 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 2:31 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1406 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 8:26 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1389 of 1482 (845435)
12-15-2018 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1384 by ringo
12-15-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
The reason there is no objective evidence is because it would be impossible to establish a clear cause-effect link between the prayer and the event.
So you have no parameters that would make it true or false so you have nothing to base an opinion on.
ringo writes:
Unless you can be 100% sure that you're not hallucinating this entire conversation, you have no "absolute truth".
I am not drinking nor am I using any hallucinating drugs so I am not hallucinating.
ringo writes:
On two separate occasions I have seen two moons in the sky at the same time, so I don't trust eyewitness testimony - even if it's my own.
There are 181 moons in our solar system so what?
ringo writes:
Of course I do, just like I disagree that two moons are an absolute truth.
So the 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500 does not exist and the 181 moons in our solar system does not exist because you disagree that two moons are an absolute truth.
You are deliberately being obtuse.
ringo writes:
Existence is not a thing. It's property of things.
Existence is a state of being in which the universe and everything in it exists.
ringo writes:
You could be hallucinating this entire conversation.
Just because you are in a chaotic stupor does not mean that every body else is hallucinating.
ringo writes:
Of course it was. It was the best explanation at the time.
Just because something is the best explanation at the time presented does not mean it is the best explanation.
You are still being deliberately obtuse.
ringo writes:
Nonsense. Newton was neither misinformed nor deluded.
Then why was he wrong?
ringo writes:
Scientific fact is the best information that we have at any given time.
1. Fact" a thing that is indisputably the case. Google search fact definition.
2. Fact: something that has actual existence Fact Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
3. Fact: A thing that is known or proved to be true. FACT | Meaning & Definition for UK English | Lexico.com
4. Fact: something known to have happened or to exist. FACT | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
5. Fact: something that actually exists; reality; truth: Fact Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
Scientific definition.
6. Fact: A fact is a thing that is known to be consistent with objective reality and can be proven to be true with evidence. Fact - Wikipedia
7. Scientific fact - an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true (although its truth is never final) Scientific fact - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms | Vocabulary.com
So according to #7 a scientific fact is not a fact but is a tentative fact.
1. Tentative:not certain or fixed; provisional.
So a scientific fact has no certain or fixed; provisional making it no better than a hypothesis.
ringo writes:
There's a difference between scientific fact and absolute truth.
So I will agree with you that there is a difference between a fact and a scientific fact as they have defined scientific fact as not being a fact but as a tentative fact (could be true or could be false).
I will make note of that in any future posts.
You see I learned something today.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1384 by ringo, posted 12-15-2018 2:38 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1390 by DrJones*, posted 12-15-2018 6:04 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1394 by ringo, posted 12-16-2018 1:29 PM ICANT has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 1390 of 1482 (845438)
12-15-2018 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1389 by ICANT
12-15-2018 5:04 PM


Re: Creation
I am not drinking nor am I using any hallucinating drugs so I am not hallucinating.
you could be hallucinating your sobriety.
There are 181 moons in our solar system so what?
don't be an idiot, obviously from the context of his writing he meant two of Earth's moon.
You are deliberately being obtuse.
pot, kettle.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1389 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 5:04 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1407 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 8:35 PM DrJones* has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1391 of 1482 (845439)
12-15-2018 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1387 by Tanypteryx
12-15-2018 4:21 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Tanypteryx
Tanypteryx writes:
Just to be absolutely clear, the absolute truth is NOT part of the scientific method.
Sorry to hear that. If you never find the absolute truth you will never get any factual information. So why waste the resources and time trying to find something you are not even looking for
Would it not be better to spent the resources and time trying to solve the problems of the world in which we live. Like the food problem, medical problems, diseases that kill and cripple people? Just a thought.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1387 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-15-2018 4:21 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1392 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-15-2018 7:14 PM ICANT has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1392 of 1482 (845440)
12-15-2018 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1391 by ICANT
12-15-2018 6:41 PM


Re: Creation
Sorry to hear that. If you never find the absolute truth you will never get any factual information.
Well, I'm happy to report that you are completely incorrect about that, but you still don't get this simple concept. Absolute truth is religious mumbojumbo, absolute truth is not part of the scientific method, absolute truth has never been part of the scientific method, and absolute truth will never be part of the scientific method.
The scientific method since it was first defined as a methodical way to study and understand things has been a highly successful way to gain knowledge. If you think you can convince science and scientists to change how they do science and report the results, don't hold your breath.
So why waste the resources and time trying to find something you are not even looking for
Was this a question or a statement? I never waste resources.
Would it not be better to spent the resources and time trying to solve the problems of the world in which we live. Like the food problem, medical problems, diseases that kill and cripple people? Just a thought
Nope. You can do whatever you want with your resources.
There are enough resources to do science and solve human issues. You guys aren't successfully doing either one.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1391 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 6:41 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1395 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 1:46 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 1409 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 8:46 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1393 of 1482 (845475)
12-16-2018 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1386 by ICANT
12-15-2018 3:54 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
If anyone is hallucinating it is ringo.
If one of us could be hallucinating, it could be you.
ICANT writes:
Are you that stupid or are you deliberately being that obtuse.
I'm deliberately not swallowing your nonsense without questioning it. Do you have an honest response?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1386 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 3:54 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1394 of 1482 (845479)
12-16-2018 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1389 by ICANT
12-15-2018 5:04 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
So you have no parameters that would make it true or false so you have nothing to base an opinion on.
When there is no evidence, the default position is false - i.e unless there is evidence pointing to a cause-effect relationship between prayer and _______, we can not conclude that prayer is effective.
ICANT writes:
I am not drinking nor am I using any hallucinating drugs so I am not hallucinating.
Mental illness is another possibility. The person who is hallucinating is the last one to be qualified to determine whether he is hallucinating or not.
ICANT writes:
There are 181 moons in our solar system so what?
So what? Only one is visible to the naked eye. I said I SAW two at once.
ICANT writes:
So the 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500 does not exist and the 181 moons in our solar system does not exist because you disagree that two moons are an absolute truth.
You are deliberately being obtuse.
You're being illiterate. Read what I wrote.
ICANT writes:
Existence is a state of being in which the universe and everything in it exists.
Existence is a property of things that exist.
ICANT writes:
Just because you are in a chaotic stupor does not mean that every body else is hallucinating.
That's what I'm telling you. You don't seem to be fooling anybody on this forum except Phat.
ICANT writes:
Just because something is the best explanation at the time presented does not mean it is the best explanation.
Of course it does. It's the best explanation until if and when a better one comes along. The Empire State Building was the tallest building until a taller one was built.
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
Newton was neither misinformed nor deluded.
Then why was he wrong?
He wasn't "wrong" per se. His understanding was incomplete because he didn't have the information that was found later.
ICANT writes:
1. Fact" a thing that is indisputably the case. Google search fact definition.
Dictionary definitions are for schoolboys.
ICANT writes:
Scientific definition.
6. Fact: A fact is a thing that is known to be consistent with objective reality and can be proven to be true with evidence.
Correct. There's nothing there about it being "indisputable" or absolute.
ICANT writes:
7. Scientific fact - an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true (although its truth is never final
Correct. So why do you keep disputing that?
ICANT writes:
So a scientific fact has no certain or fixed; provisional making it no better than a hypothesis.
Who said it was "better" than a hypothesis? Why should it be?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1389 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2018 5:04 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1396 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 1:49 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1399 by Phat, posted 12-16-2018 2:02 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1411 by ICANT, posted 12-16-2018 10:10 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1395 of 1482 (845484)
12-16-2018 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1392 by Tanypteryx
12-15-2018 7:14 PM


Re: Creation
Tanypteryx, replying to ICANT writes:
Absolute truth is religious mumbo-jumbo, absolute truth is not part of the scientific method, absolute truth has never been part of the scientific method, and absolute truth will never be part of the scientific method.
You guys! Here is how I see this argument: Once upon a time, a wayward son left the nest. He went to college and studied hard, learning the newest information about science and about making an impact on the world around him. His "Dad" was a religious man who had gotten saved years before and who lived his life on one principle: Genesis 1:1.
Gen 1:1 writes:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The dad was rather sheltered from the latest educational insights and updates on science, though he did attempt to study it from time to time. The son and his classmates kinda mocked the old man for even attempting to understand science or the scientific method. Deep down, the Dad was a bit of a frustrated scientist himself...he wondered what he could have done with Genesis 1 plus an education. His whole motive and heart were to convince the son and his classmates that there was only one important absolute truth: Genesis 1. The son responded:
Absolute truth is religious mumbo-jumbo, absolute truth is not part of the scientific method, absolute truth has never been part of the scientific method, and absolute truth will never be part of the scientific method.
The son may not have realized that his Dad was only saying that no matter what he learned from science, including the very technology that helped him battle cancer, one absolute truth remained. The son disagreed.
(Dad, If you think you can convince science and scientists to change how they do science and report the results, don't hold your breath.
The Father really did respect the science that his son and friends were learning, but he felt the need to remind them as often as possible that Genesis 1 was a necessary absolute truth, no matter how much other knowledge they learned. The son was thankful that he was alive and breathing, but he attributed that to science and human achievement.
Get it? Keep studying, son.
All that "Dad" means is that absolute truth can be a part of the faith of the scientist without interfering with his method of study.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1392 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-15-2018 7:14 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
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