Creation

Hi ringo I know prayer works from personal experience but anything I said you would say it was a coincidence regardless of how many events took place due to prayer over one major event. My doctor disagrees with you. Which is building a strawman. I did and here it is.InMessage 1384 you said: But you did not see two moons from earth. You would have to have been on Mars to see 2 moons. So you were either dreaming or either hallucinating.In Message 1384 you said: My question: Do you disagree that the White House's existence is an absolute truth?Your answer: Of course I do,You continued: just like I disagree that two moons are an absolute truth.Using your straw man as you just said above:

quote:

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Only one is visible to the naked eye.

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Since you know there is only one moon visible you are arguing and being deliberately obtuse. He was wrong because he did not have the correct information to start with. Dictionaries are what defines the words we use.You don't like it then write your own dictionary and make up your own definitions. Then my hypothesis is just as valid.And don't tell me I don't have any evidence.The CMBR verifies that there was a light period of unknown duration as it is spread over all of the universe. God created the universe in a light period that lasted for an unknown duration.The universe is expanding, according to Hubble and the Bible agrees with him as God stretched it out.I have yet to find the reason science gives for that expansion. What is the cause of it starting to expand?Inflation is a fantasy according to Penrose who is a giant of physics.
So inflation did not start the expansion. If it did what caused inflation to begin?God Bless,

No, ICANT, as I already said, we don't have absolute truths. Just various levels of confidence in our conclusions based on the efficacy and strength of the data.And the statement I made enjoys an exceptionally high level of confidence.

Hi Paul Could you present the objective, verifiable, evidence that high level of confidence is based upon?God Bless,

It prevents the fear of our species becoming orphans in a vast indifferent universe.

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It gives us the security of a benign and loving leader who knows the territory...after all, the foot soldiers know the territory yet are helpless o change the war, whereas the one who left the Pentagon and is on the front line with them can do both.\

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You will *sigh* as always argue that there is no evidence of such a God or leader being omnipresent, which gets us back to the necessity of belief---for some. Others of you have your own belief. or none at all.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile

Perhaps data brings you comfort. Does logic, reason, and reality seem comfortable? Perhaps in ICANTs experience, being freely able to pray and meditate on the Bible gives him comfort. We are a product of our experiences.

Good point, though some will argue that there was no time in the Beginning. They eliminate God as a factor in the equation because they cannot prove Him to their satisfaction. A case can be made biblically that belief leads to proof. Scientifically, this cannot be grasped and in fact is either in the scientist or not. Regardless, belief should not affect scientific results.

It's called confirmation bias: If you believe that prayer works, you'll be able to attribute all kinds of things to "answered prayer". But an objective observer will look for a cause-effect relationship. Really? Your doctor doesn't believe in mental illness? He thinks a person can always tell when he's hallucinating? I don't believe you. How on earth is that a strawman?I'll tell you the story:In the first instance, I saw one full moon and then another. I quickly noticed that one of them had a smoother surface and its shape was more balloony than loony. Sure enough, I heard on the news later that several people had reported seeing a UFO and the Weather Office had confirmed that it was a weather balloon.In the second instance, I was standing in a glass bus shelter when I noticed there was one full moon on the east side and another on the west side. Obviously, one of them was a reflection - but which one? I could have done an experiment - i.e. gone outside of the shelter to eliminate the possibility of reflections - but I figured it out using logic and "assumptions".(Solution: The sun had just set in the west (an assumption based on prior observation). The sun is farther away than the moon (an assumption based on prior observation). The moon could not be shining full with the sun behind it; therefore the one in the east must be the real one.)Where's the straw? Yes I did. I saw them as plainly as I see three computers in front of me now. I saw them more directly than I see politicians on TV. No. As I explained above, my initial interpretation was flawed, as all eyewitness evidence is flawed. I'm illustrating how eyewitness evidence can be wrong. I can misinterpret seeing two moons. You can misinterpret seeing the results of prayer. Usage is what defines the words we use. Dictionaries only describe the usage. Again, you're not reading what I wrote. I was replying to your statement in Message 1389: "So a scientific fact has no certain or fixed; provisional making it no better than a hypothesis." I said that a hypothesis is not "better" than a fact. I did not say that one hypothesis is as good as another. You don't have evidence that confirms your hypothesis and denies another.

I asked: In what way is God "necessary"?The belief in a god might alleviate that fear in some believers but I didn't ask you why the belief is necessary. I asked you why the god is necessary. Or present at all.

And some argue that there was no beginning. God can't be in the equation because he's not a mathematical value. Universal variable constants are not allowed Uh? Really? Do tell. Belief cannot affect results unless the scientist is doing it wrong and if he is, others will correct him.

Easy.The total lack of any objective verifiable evidence in favor of your god proposal.The total lack of any objective verifiable evidence in favor of your god as absolute truth. The total lack of any objective verifiable evidence of any absolute truth. The total lack of any objective verifiable evidence in favor of any religious supernatural anything anywhere in this universe.All pending any future observations, of course, as is the scientific way.And since this species has been looking for millennia without any objective verifiable evidence having been found leads to a high confidence level that there may be none to be found.All pending any future observations, of course, as is the scientific way.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

I have no objection to anyone being wrong. And I have no objection to anyone rejecting my corrections and continuing to be wrong. That's life in a secular world.

Hi Phat But Phat all they have is faith in their belief that the universe just is for no reason. There was no cause it just is.There is no objective verifiable evidence to support the BBT. You have seen the run around I have been getting for the last 10 years.Although cavediver and Son Goku both said a new theory is needed.
But these guys can't be bothered with the facts as they don't believe in facts.God Bless,

Hi Paul If it is so easy why didn't you present your evidence.Assertions don't count as objective, verifiable, evidence.Did you not present any as you don't have any?God Bless,

The evidence is there. You just cannot see it. You don't want to see it.

Hi Paul The evidence is where?I don't read it in any of your posts.You never present evidence to support your view or to refute anything I say.Assertions are not evidence.God Bless,