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Author Topic:   This Bathroom Law Confusion
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 76 of 166 (783009)
05-02-2016 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
05-02-2016 11:31 AM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
The point is that they CAN'T wash at the sinks as they did in my dorm because there IS no privacy. PRIVACY MATTERS.

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 Message 75 by jar, posted 05-02-2016 11:31 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1220 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 77 of 166 (783012)
05-02-2016 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
05-02-2016 10:42 AM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
Being an unattractive male, I can only guess at why some people are concerned about safety.
A lone woman in an infrequently used restroom may feel vulnerable to being trapped by a man. She could be subject to everything from the creepy stare to unwanted/uninvited advances to peeping to sexual violence.
Yes it will happen with or without the law. I think the intent is to at least let women know if they see an obvious male in the women's bathroom that he shouldn't be there.
I just think the way the law is written and enacted doesn't do what was intended as far as safety. It worked for polarizing politics.

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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 78 of 166 (783013)
05-02-2016 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by 14174dm
05-02-2016 11:55 AM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
14174dm writes:
I think the intent is to at least let women know if they see an obvious male in the women's bathroom that he shouldn't be there.
But the LBGT issue is not about obvious males or obvious females. If a person wearing a dress aqnd heels (but not a kilt) came into a male washroom then I could see some issue. But that is NOT what is being discussed. The person who has transitioned from male to female or who dresses as a female appears to be a female.
If a woman saw an obvious male in a bathroom then there would be reason to file a complaint or at least feel uncomfortable.
BUT there is no law saying you should not be made to feel uncomfortable.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 166 (783016)
05-02-2016 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
05-02-2016 11:03 AM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
Are there urinals in this co-ed bathroom? If not, that says something about why we don't mix the sexes in itself. Privacy IS important, why push the envelope?
Not a great argument. Public bathrooms have urinals for reasons that have very little to do with privacy and more to do with getting people in and out of the bathroom quickly while keeping pee off of the seats. Nobody has urinals in their home, and it is not that unusual to go into a public men's room with only toilets and no urinals.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

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 Message 72 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 11:03 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 1:04 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 80 of 166 (783017)
05-02-2016 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by NoNukes
05-02-2016 12:55 PM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
Fine, big deal, it doesn't change the point I'm making. But I might ask why nobody cares about pee getting on the co-ed seats.
OR, come to think of it, the perennial problem women complain about of the seat being left up.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by NoNukes, posted 05-02-2016 1:25 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 166 (783021)
05-02-2016 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Faith
05-02-2016 1:04 PM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
But I might ask why nobody cares about pee getting on the co-ed seats.
Where do you get that idea? Isn't the solution to the problem of pee on seats for men to put the seat up first?
OR, come to think of it, the perennial problem women complain about of the seat being left up.
The solution we use at our house is to have men put the seat back down and not to kick men out of the bathroom.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 1:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 2:00 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 94 by anglagard, posted 05-02-2016 8:37 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 82 of 166 (783025)
05-02-2016 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by NoNukes
05-02-2016 1:25 PM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
I guess you're determined to give me a headache with your irrelevant comparisons. We are talking about STRANGERS in a unisex bathroom. There are no guarantees of anything like good behavior at home -- and even in some cases at home lots of problems of the sort mentioned exist anyway. I think I've made many good points about why a unisex public restroom is unnecessary and ridiculous. If we were a third world country and couldn't afford two facilities there might be an argument. But even there they don't put the women together with the men to share the hole in the floor.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by NoNukes, posted 05-02-2016 2:52 PM Faith has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 83 of 166 (783027)
05-02-2016 2:15 PM


I would never sit my ass on a public toilet. If I have to and that is a dire emergency. I will stoop. There is no way in hell I'd entertain the idea of having my bare skin against something that has been shat and pissed upon by the general public. I do not even want to touch the door handle. I do not even want to touch the freaken handles of the sink spigot. Forgetaboutit! I do not envy the ladies at all in this respect.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 2:20 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 84 of 166 (783029)
05-02-2016 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by 1.61803
05-02-2016 2:15 PM


Do you feel the same way about a university dorm co-ed bathroom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by 1.61803, posted 05-02-2016 2:15 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by 1.61803, posted 05-02-2016 2:26 PM Faith has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1615 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 85 of 166 (783031)
05-02-2016 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
05-02-2016 2:20 PM


Do you feel the same way about a university dorm co-ed bathroom?
I can say I have been in some of the filthiest most decrepit bathrooms on Earth. Frankfurt Germany, NYC, Juarez Mexico you name it.
All that withstanding, a university dorm co-ed bathroom would be one of the last place I'd want to park it. For the record when it comes to nastiness the woman are not much tidier than the men in my experience.
The cleanest shitter I ever been in was when I was in basic training in the Army. We even had to brasso the drains.
Edited by 1.61803, : them for the
Edited by 1.61803, : add youtube link

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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 Message 84 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 2:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member (Idle past 155 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(3)
Message 86 of 166 (783032)
05-02-2016 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
05-02-2016 11:03 AM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
Faith writes:
I think mixing the sexes in bathrooms is barbaric. Families don't allow that. Sisters together, brothers together but not the two sexes together.
I suppose my family is barbaric, then.
And pretty much any house of anyone else's I've ever entered in my life.
Do you seriously have separate male/female bathrooms in your house?
this is something that I believe all cultures have recognized forever, but if not certainly the western cultures.
No, not at all.
First time used in the US -> 1887
First time used anywhere was in Europe -> 1739
Urinary Segregation
And, really, it was only widely used in the US since the 1920s.
Which means... the system of separate male/female bathrooms in North America is not even 100 years old, yet.
Heh... "forever"... your life isn't the only history of the world
Stalls provide some privacy but the walls are not all that sturdy and usually allow visibility under and over to anyone caring to check it out.
True.
The solution of separate male/female bathrooms is useless, though. A bad female could still "get you" in a female-only bathroom. Or, really, a man who doesn't care about molesting you probably doesn't care what stick-figure is glued to the door outside either.
Better solution: Make it illegal to molest people in any bathroom.
Equally enforceable, but covers even more issues.
Also.. it's already a law, yay!
Are there urinals in this co-ed bathroom? If not, that says something about why we don't mix the sexes in itself. Privacy IS important, why push the envelope?
Nope. No urinals. I don't understand a problem with not having urinals.
Are there showers in this bathroom? In the one I mentioned the partitions, again, like the usual toilet stalls, didn't provide privacy to the extent of keeping someone from checking out the neighboring shower if desired, and there were no doors on them, just a thin curtain. If there is more privacy than that in the co-ed situation, again that says something about the need for privacy and why not have the traditional separate bathrooms in that case?
Yes, showers. Full walls between shower stalls, just a curtain to the entrance of each shower.
Again... same problem with female-only or male-only showers. A bad person isn't stopped by a sign on a door, and even if so, a bad female in a female-only shower area can still molest anyone.
Better solution: Make it illegal to molest people in any shower.
Equally enforceable, but covers even more issues.
Also.. it's already a law, yay!
What is accomplished by forcing the sexes to be together if you have to make an effort to keep them apart even in that situation, and if no effort is made, is it really the case that you can watch someone else shower, women wash themselves at the sinks in the view of everybody, urinals are used in the view of everybody?
If you're concerned about viewing... shower in the showers.. not the sink.
And don't have urinals.
If you're not concerned about viewing (topless women are perfectly legal in most civilized countries... America might catch up one day...), congratulations! You're likely a mature, normal adult.
If not, if privacy about these things matters, why not just have the usual separate bathrooms where privacy is easier to protect?
That's exactly what I'm advocating.
One big bathroom, stalls for everyone.
Builders don't have to waste money on two separate rooms, no "long line" for the women's bathroom only, stalls all around! Everybody wins!
The solution is so simple, it boggles the mind this has gone on for almost 100 years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 11:03 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 2:41 PM Stile has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 87 of 166 (783033)
05-02-2016 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by 1.61803
05-02-2016 2:26 PM


I agree about the women. Even an all-women's dorm bathroom requires putting down protective paper on the toilet seat. But putting men and women strangers together with their different habits and needs, just seems so utterly crackpot to me I can hardly imagine there is a university where they do that, as Stile reported. Just more Leftist "progressive" egalitarian idio-cy if you don't mind my saying so.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 88 of 166 (783034)
05-02-2016 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Stile
05-02-2016 2:32 PM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
I'm not talking particularly about "bad" people, mostly about privacy and the different needs of the two sexes, and let me add the different sexual interests and curiosity of the sexes fer cryin out loud. You don't have to be "bad" to want to peek at the beautiful body that just went into the shower stall next to yours..
And when you talk about both sexes in families sharing the bathroom I don't think you mean at the same time do you?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Stile, posted 05-02-2016 2:32 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Stile, posted 05-03-2016 9:31 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 166 (783037)
05-02-2016 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
05-02-2016 2:00 PM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
We are talking about STRANGERS in a unisex bathroom.
I thought we were talking about something substantial until you started complaining about urinals and the toilet seat being up. Then the concerns seemed to diminish into something pretty picayune.
Nothing really earth shattering about a unisex bathroom. As best as I can tell, they seem to work fine despite the fact that Kroger having them seems to have set some people off.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 2:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 3:06 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 90 of 166 (783039)
05-02-2016 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by NoNukes
05-02-2016 2:52 PM


Re: No more M/F bathrooms
Now a stomachache on top of the headache. When I add things to the list of problems I'm not intending to eliminate the other problems that may be more "substantial." Why should women have to put up with the bad habits of strange men when it's enough of a pain to deal with it at home? It's all a big pain. The point is there is NOTHING GOOD about unisex public bathrooms. If they "work fine" it's only for the young who have been brainwashed by the Left into accepting the Progressive rationale and not noticing the problems.
And THERE IS NO NEED FOR THEM. It's all the offspring of the PC Progressive Leftist crackpot egalitarian project.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by NoNukes, posted 05-02-2016 2:52 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by NoNukes, posted 05-02-2016 5:27 PM Faith has replied

  
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