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Author Topic:   A Simplified Proof That The Universe Cannot Be Explained
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 267 of 342 (785734)
06-09-2016 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nano
05-15-2016 6:35 AM


quote:
A Simplified Proof That The Universe Cannot be Explained

1. Consider an empty universe.
a. There is nothing to cause anything to happen.

2. Now consider the first thing in the universe.

  1. It could be a particle, a force, an underlying structure/law of the universe or even God.
  2. It doesn't matter what it is.

3. This first thing has no cause since there was nothing before it.

a. Therefore it cannot be explained.

4. Therefore the universe cannot be explained.
5. Corollary - Alternately, the first thing might have always been there.

a. This to cannot be explained since the first thing still has no cause.

6. Ultimate Corollary - Given that the universe itself cannot be explained, then nothing in the universe can be ultimately explained. (This corollary was added to the original proof on 5/21/16 by nano with admin permission. See Message 166)


As a Christian, I would agree that God is an uncaused first cause...but would not agree that just because a Creator cannot be explained or defined it then follows that creation itself has a similar limitation.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 268 of 342 (785735)
06-09-2016 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by ringo
06-09-2016 11:52 AM


Wrinkles In Space
ringo writes:

Can you have space with nothing in it? I think you can.
As I understand it, the universe is the space; the "things" in it are just "wrinkles" in the space. So yes, I would say you could have a universe with no things - perfectly flat.

No wonder my face has wrinkles! I knew there had to be an explanation....

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by ringo, posted 06-09-2016 11:52 AM ringo has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 269 of 342 (785736)
06-09-2016 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Stile
06-09-2016 9:45 AM


Re: Greatest proof of all time!
stile writes:

How do you differentiate between something that is "impossible to explain" temporarily right now with the information we have currently available to us... versus something that is "impossible to explain" for all time, regardless of what information may come to us in the future?

Without being able to read the future, or know about information we don't have right now... I don't see how you're able to do such a thing.

I agree. Never say never!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Stile, posted 06-09-2016 9:45 AM Stile has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 329 of 342 (835746)
06-30-2018 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by frako
06-18-2018 6:15 AM


but isn't that silly as we are explaining it?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by frako, posted 06-18-2018 6:15 AM frako has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 335 of 342 (864594)
10-13-2019 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 334 by jar
10-13-2019 10:51 AM


Re: What are the limits of science?
That sounds like my pants size! What an amazing coincidence.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15931
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 340 of 342 (888513)
09-19-2021 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by jar
09-18-2021 6:38 AM


What Does God Do?
jar writes:

Unexplained things get assigned to the Unexplained category.

Making up explanations like 'God did it' is simply childish, not honest and silly.

But surely God has to do something.

As a believer, what would you imagine GOD to do? Create universes and ignore His beloved pond scum?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by jar, posted 09-18-2021 6:38 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by AZPaul3, posted 09-19-2021 4:35 PM Phat has taken no action
 Message 342 by jar, posted 09-19-2021 4:49 PM Phat has taken no action

  
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