Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Molecular Population Genetics and Diversity through Mutation
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 53 of 455 (784976)
05-26-2016 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by caffeine
05-26-2016 2:54 PM


Re: Some very simple maths.
Instead of arguing math and semantics, could we find examples?
Otzi the Iceman and King Tutankhamun & family have had dna analyses. I've tried but haven't found what I'm looking for.
My thought is whether these analyses of ancient dna show differences from modern dna. Does Otzi from 5,200 years ago (guess 260 generations) have alleles that don't exist in modern times? Does he have more chromosomes and/or functioning genes?
One site I did find seems to say that Otzi is pretty much the same as modern people. OTZI, THE ICEMAN | Facts and Details
The genetic results add both information and intrigue. From his genes, we now know that the Iceman had brown hair and brown eyes and that he was probably lactose intolerant and thus could not digest milk’somewhat ironic, given theories that he was a shepherd. Not surprisingly, he is more related to people living in southern Europe today than to those in North Africa or the Middle East, with close connections to geographically isolated modern populations in Sardinia, Sicily, and the Iberian Peninsula. The DNA analysis also revealed several genetic variants that placed the Iceman at high risk for hardening of the arteries. ("If he hadn't been shot," Zink remarked, "he probably would have died of a heart attack or stroke in ten years.") Perhaps most surprising, researchers found the genetic footprint of bacteria known as Borrelia burgdorferi in his DNA---making the Iceman the earliest known human infected by the bug that causes Lyme disease.
That seems to say that human genetics haven't lost diversity.
A different look would be to examine isolated animal populations. I did find what should be a good candidate - Ossabaw Island pig. Spanish explorers dropped pigs off in the 1500s for later food stops. From what I could find, little cross breeding has occurred since then.
http://wildpiginfo.msstate.edu/...aw%20Island-Case_Study.pdf
The pigs are distinctive with small size, upright ears, and coarse bristles. Of interest to medicine is their genetic tendencies to high fat levels. They actually get pre-diabetic similar to humans. Additionally they are very tolerant of salt in their drinking water and diet.
If I understand Faith's proposal, the Ossabaw Island pig is using pre-existing genes that are now active due to the deletion of genes used by other pigs. To show this, comparisons with ancestor breeds would show no new genes in the Ossabaw Island pigs.
I tried to find comparisons of Ossabaw Island pigs with their presumed ancestors - Canary Island and Iberian pigs. Pretty much all I learned is that I don't know anything about biology and genetics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by caffeine, posted 05-26-2016 2:54 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by caffeine, posted 05-27-2016 2:06 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 102 of 455 (785268)
06-01-2016 5:04 PM


Was Adam Human?
Just a thought - The Great Debate: Molecular Population Genetics and Diversity in Evolution Message 18
EvC Forum: Information? control=msg&m=785265#m785265
Faith says about "Junk DNA"
It’s a lot of dead DNA, so I take it to represent a lot of dead creatures. It’s the greater part of at least the human genome and many others
If I understand Faith's proposal right, current humans have massive genetic depletion as evidenced by the "junk dna"
So what did Adam & Eve look like since they had so much more genetic material? Were they so different that they would be a different species than homo sapiens?
Edited by 14174dm, : Crappy title

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by NoNukes, posted 06-01-2016 9:38 PM 14174dm has not replied
 Message 104 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2016 10:24 PM 14174dm has replied
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 06-01-2016 10:54 PM 14174dm has replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 133 of 455 (785365)
06-03-2016 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Faith
06-01-2016 10:54 PM


Re: Was Adam Human?
If Adam and Eve had more functional genes than current humans, why wouldn't those genes be active. So having multiple genes for melanin production, Adam & Eve would be black with black eyes.
Why would they not be similar to Down Syndrome? In Down Syndrome an extra copy of chromosome 21 is active. The active genes have major impacts on physical and mental development compared to average people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 06-01-2016 10:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 184 of 455 (785587)
06-07-2016 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by New Cat's Eye
06-01-2016 10:24 PM


Re: Was Adam Human?
Stumbled across an old reply I thought I would poke at.
Do humans live 900 years?
I've always wondered if the long lives were due to genetics or lifestyle or environment or what.
I lean towards the very few long lived people listed in the bible were actually closer to God and he chose to allow them long life. Their names and ages are highlighted as special cases rather than the norm for the time.
Edited by 14174dm, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2016 10:24 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 06-07-2016 12:29 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 253 of 455 (785725)
06-09-2016 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Faith
06-09-2016 5:52 AM


Death or reproduction
Comment mostly cuz I'm bored with both sides' current argument by assertion.
If there had been no Fall, no death, the system would produce wonderful variations in every Species or Kind without endangering them, lots more breeds of dogs even than that large collection we have.
Without death, all the reproducing animals would cover every square inch of the earth. Let's look at the elephant to keep numbers manageable. I tried the meadow vole but Excel crapped out on the size of the numbers.
African elephant - Wikipedia
Crude estimate from data under section Reproduction
Assume every female has 6 offspring in 50 year period with 3 being female.
Assume no death and number males equals number females
Assume 6,000 years since creation to now so 120 generations of 50 years
Please forgive the formatting
N(female) = 3 females/generation ^ 120 generations
= 1.8 x10^57
N (total) = 3.6 x 10^57
Using 20 ft long & 10 ft wide (guess)
Area of elephants = 2.6 x 10^52 square miles
Area of earth's land = 5.7 x 10^7 square miles
Depth of elephants = stupid number
So obviously we can't have reproduction without death. The alternative is talking all the bull elephants into chastity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Faith, posted 06-09-2016 5:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 06-09-2016 1:23 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 335 of 455 (785963)
06-13-2016 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Taq
06-13-2016 5:15 PM


Re: Mutations are not alleles
You're not going to get Faith to compare chimps and humans. To her, humans were a special creation separate from the creation of ape kind.
Do we have comparisons between apes such as chimps, bonobos, gorillas, etc. Since they are ape kind, their ancestor should have carried the ape super genes that all apes are derived from.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Taq, posted 06-13-2016 5:15 PM Taq has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024