|
Author
|
Topic: Is Watson conscious?
|
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
|
|
Message 31 of 42 (785162)
05-28-2016 12:02 PM
|
Reply to: Message 29 by caffeine
05-28-2016 9:33 AM
|
|
Re: Bit of definition
I'd consider sentience and consciousness to be synonyms. Sentience is more that just consciousness, it involves subjectivity and requires more thinking than just being aware.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by caffeine, posted 05-28-2016 9:33 AM | | caffeine has not replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
|
|
Message 32 of 42 (785163)
05-28-2016 12:03 PM
|
Reply to: Message 22 by Tangle
05-27-2016 1:28 PM
|
|
Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
Tangle writes: If we didn't care whether there was a difference between ourselves (natural) and something that we make (artificial), we wouldn't be having the conversation.
It isn't about "caring" whether there's a difference. It's about ways and means of determining what the difference is, if any.
Tangle writes: We look inside the box.
Vivisection isn't always an option. How do you tell whether the "entity" at the other end of the Internet is human or machine?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 22 by Tangle, posted 05-27-2016 1:28 PM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 33 by Tangle, posted 05-28-2016 12:20 PM | | ringo has replied |
|
Tangle
Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
|
|
|
Message 33 of 42 (785165)
05-28-2016 12:20 PM
|
Reply to: Message 32 by ringo
05-28-2016 12:03 PM
|
|
Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
ringo writes: Vivisection isn't always an option. How do you tell whether the "entity" at the other end of the Internet is human or machine? If we care, we go have a look. If we don't..... The better question is not whether we can tell the difference it's whether it matters if we can't.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:03 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 34 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:23 PM | | Tangle has replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
|
|
Message 34 of 42 (785167)
05-28-2016 12:23 PM
|
Reply to: Message 33 by Tangle
05-28-2016 12:20 PM
|
|
Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
Tangle writes: If we care, we go have a look.
So if you don't show up on my doorstep, I can assume you don't care.
Tangle writes: The better question is not whether we can tell the difference it's whether it matters if we can't.
That's just a philosophical question. I don't care about philosophy.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Tangle, posted 05-28-2016 12:20 PM | | Tangle has replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 35 of 42 (785169)
05-28-2016 12:36 PM
|
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
05-28-2016 12:23 PM
|
|
for the love of knowledge!
ringo writes: What is there besides what seems to be? ringo writes: How do you tell the difference {between illusion and reality}? ringo writes: We're not talking about "natural" or "artificial". We're talking about consciousness, awareness, responsiveness, sentience. Is there any way to tell "natural" consciousness from "artificial" consciousness? What do "natural" and "artificial" even mean in the context of consciousness?" ringo writes: How do you tell whether the "entity" at the other end of the Internet is human or machine?
ringo writes: That's just a philosophical question. I don't care about philosophy.
You can't come into a philosophy discussion, philosophize, and then dismiss philosophizing of others as being philosophy. You run the danger of dividing the universe by zero or something, its very dangerous. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:23 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 36 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:48 PM | | Modulous has replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
|
|
Message 36 of 42 (785170)
05-28-2016 12:48 PM
|
Reply to: Message 35 by Modulous
05-28-2016 12:36 PM
|
|
Re: for the love of knowledge!
Modulous writes: You can't come into a philosophy discussion, philosophize, and then dismiss philosophizing of others as being philosophy.
I don't consider it philosophizing any more than I consider measuring a two-by-four philosophizing. I'm looking for concrete answers.
Modulous writes: You run the danger of dividing the universe by zero or something, its very dangerous.
I don't mind rushing in where angels fear to tread. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by Modulous, posted 05-28-2016 12:36 PM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 38 by Modulous, posted 05-28-2016 1:09 PM | | ringo has replied |
|
Tangle
Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
(1)
| |
| |
| |
|
|
Message 37 of 42 (785171)
05-28-2016 1:04 PM
|
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
05-28-2016 12:23 PM
|
|
Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
ringo writes: So if you don't show up on my doorstep, I can assume you don't care. Correct.
That's just a philosophical question. I don't care about philosophy. It's a highly practical problem. At some time in the nearish future machines will be in charge of our cars and a little after that it'll be our healthcare and eventually our judicial systems. It's going to matter to our descendants whether their helpmates are conscious and sentient and what form that consciousness might take.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:23 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 39 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 1:14 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 38 of 42 (785172)
05-28-2016 1:09 PM
|
Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
05-28-2016 12:48 PM
|
|
Re: for the love of knowledge!
I don't consider it philosophizing any more than I consider measuring a two-by-four philosophizing. The problem is that you are looking at the line between the objective and the subjective. The experience and the process of experiencing. Until we have a full scientific theory of consciousness, we can only figure out the questions we should be asking and what the answers should look like. And that's philosophizing whichever way you cut it.
I'm looking for concrete answers. The very battlecry of the philosopher!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 12:48 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by ringo, posted 05-28-2016 1:18 PM | | Modulous has seen this message but not replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
|
|
Message 39 of 42 (785173)
05-28-2016 1:14 PM
|
Reply to: Message 37 by Tangle
05-28-2016 1:04 PM
|
|
Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
Tangle writes: At some time in the nearish future machines will be in charge of our cars....
Today we have cars identified as "Student Driver". I guess in the nearish future we'll have to have cars identified as "Human Driver" so the other human drivers know to watch for erratic behaviour. (During the transition period in which there are both human drivers and AI drivers, the AIs will have to be more capable of adjusting to erratic behaviour. When all drivers are AI, the AI can be much simpler.)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Tangle, posted 05-28-2016 1:04 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
|
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
|
|
|
Message 40 of 42 (785174)
05-28-2016 1:18 PM
|
Reply to: Message 38 by Modulous
05-28-2016 1:09 PM
|
|
Re: for the love of knowledge!
Modulous writes: Until we have a full scientific theory of consciousness, we can only figure out the questions we should be asking and what the answers should look like.
And what better way to get a full scientific theory of consciousness than by building a conscious entity?
Modulous writes: The problem is that you are looking at the line between the objective and the subjective.
I'm looking at the difference between analysis and synthesis.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by Modulous, posted 05-28-2016 1:09 PM | | Modulous has seen this message but not replied |
|
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
|
|
|
Message 41 of 42 (785175)
05-28-2016 2:06 PM
|
Reply to: Message 9 by NoNukes
05-27-2016 12:22 PM
|
|
Re: Watson seems very close to conscious if not sentient.
But in any event, your doubts about me don't seem to answer the question either. They weren't meant to, but rather to illustrate the difficulty in answering it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by NoNukes, posted 05-27-2016 12:22 PM | | NoNukes has seen this message but not replied |
|
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 376 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: 08-04-2010
|
(2)
| |
| |
| |
|
|
Message 42 of 42 (785204)
05-29-2016 1:20 PM
|
|
|
|
™ Version 4.2
