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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14749
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 496 of 528 (849508)
03-12-2019 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by Diomedes
03-12-2019 10:08 AM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
The agreements with the EU were basically the sort of stuff expected since around the time of the last vote. So it’s mostly surprising that as many people have switched as have. May’s strategy of running down the clock seems to have partially worked - but it’s unlikely that it will save her deal.
This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 6675
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 497 of 528 (849509)
03-12-2019 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 495 by Diomedes
03-12-2019 10:08 AM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
Yeh, the vote tonight on the deal on the table will be lost and the vote to leave without a deal tomorrow will also be lost.

So then we have nothing.

Nobody's saying it yet but the only alternative is a delay, but that requires a vote in the EU to allow it. If they so no, we will drop out of the EU on 29th March anyway. The only way of stopping that would be another referendum. Huzzah!


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 495 by Diomedes, posted 03-12-2019 10:08 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by Diomedes, posted 03-12-2019 2:06 PM Tangle has responded
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 498 of 528 (849510)
03-12-2019 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by Tangle
03-12-2019 1:26 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
Nobody's saying it yet but the only alternative is a delay, but that requires a vote in the EU to allow it. If they so no, we will drop out of the EU on 29th March anyway. The only way of stopping that would be another referendum. Huzzah!

Alas, with the time remaining, there isn't any recourse to pursue another referendum. I think at a minimum, they require at least 10 weeks of lead time. Considering how divisive another referendum might be, I can't imagine how difficult it would be for them to even agree on what the question might be. Considering their track record to date is not even agreeing on what Brexit means.

I would be surprised if the EU didn't grant an extension. The real question is how long. But with the EU parliamentary elections happening this year, as mentioned, I don't think they want the UK to still be a member and contribute to the election process if they plan on exiting.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Tangle, posted 03-12-2019 1:26 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by Tangle, posted 03-12-2019 2:37 PM Diomedes has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6675
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 499 of 528 (849511)
03-12-2019 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by Diomedes
03-12-2019 2:06 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
i'm a cock-up theorist, a big fan of the bugger's muddle, but in this case I'm really hoping for conspiracy. The EU are remainers and Mrs May is a remainer I'm hoping that this is all a plot - produce an unvotable for deal, create deadliock beg EU for extension in order to ask again.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Diomedes, posted 03-12-2019 2:06 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by Diomedes, posted 03-12-2019 2:46 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 500 of 528 (849512)
03-12-2019 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by Tangle
03-12-2019 2:37 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14749
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 501 of 528 (849513)
03-12-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Diomedes
03-12-2019 2:46 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
And May’s deal goes down in flames. Defeated by “only” 149 votes this time.

Tomorrow they vote on No Deal.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Diomedes, posted 03-12-2019 2:46 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 502 of 528 (849514)
03-12-2019 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by PaulK
03-12-2019 3:39 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
And May’s deal goes down in flames. Defeated by “only” 149 votes this time.
Tomorrow they vote on No Deal.

So the buggers muddle just muddles on.....

Should be an interesting week.


This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1600
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 503 of 528 (849534)
03-13-2019 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by Tangle
03-12-2019 1:26 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
Yeh, the vote tonight on the deal on the table will be lost and the vote to leave without a deal tomorrow will also be lost.

And there we have it, Parliament just voted for.... well, nothing. Since the vote on no deal creates no legally binding consequences.

As I type, Corbyn is discussing that he intends to meet with Tory MPs to find a solution of some kind, whilst being vague on what it is. Apparently unaware that Brexit day is a little over two weeks away.


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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 504 of 528 (849535)
03-13-2019 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by caffeine
03-13-2019 3:57 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
And there we have it, Parliament just voted for.... well, nothing. Since the vote on no deal creates no legally binding consequences.

I'm actually blown away by how close that vote was: 312 to 308. A spread of only four votes. So on the surface, it actually appears as though more MPs are in favor of No Deal versus May's deal.

So now the only remaining options are:

- Request an extension of Article 50; this has to be ratified by the EU
- The UK withdraws its withdrawal request, something it can apparently do unilaterally
- By some miracle, May's deal is tweaked and passes in the next two weeks; highly dubious

I guess there is also a fourth option: the UK re-militarizes, invades Europe, and then restores the British Empire to its former glory. I bet Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg would like that one.


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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14749
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 505 of 528 (849536)
03-13-2019 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by Diomedes
03-13-2019 4:09 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
That was the vote on the Spelman amendment insisting on a deal.

There was a majority of 43 for the actual motion.

And a much bigger majority against the No Deal Malthouse “compromise”.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 506 of 528 (849537)
03-13-2019 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by PaulK
03-13-2019 4:30 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
That was the vote on the Spelman amendment insisting on a deal.
There was a majority of 43 for the actual motion.

And a much bigger majority against the No Deal Malthouse “compromise”.

My bad. Actually, when I first read it on BBC News, it had the 312 to 308 numbers in bold. I am wondering if somebody referenced the wrong vote in the article and have since amended it.

Nonetheless, I stand corrected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by PaulK, posted 03-13-2019 4:30 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14749
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 507 of 528 (849538)
03-13-2019 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Diomedes
03-13-2019 4:36 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
The Spelman Amendment going through was the first vote and very important. The government tried to kill it and then tried to kill their own motion because of it. But the motion going through with the amendment was the really 8mportant thing.
This message is a reply to:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 508 of 528 (849558)
03-14-2019 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Diomedes
03-13-2019 4:36 PM


MPs vote for extension of Article 50
quote:
UK MPs have voted by 412 to 202 for Prime Minister Theresa May to ask the EU for a delay to Brexit.

It means the UK may not now leave on 29 March as previously planned.

Mrs May says Brexit could be delayed by three months, to 30 June, if MPs back her withdrawal deal in a vote next week.

If they reject her deal again then she says she will seek a longer extension - but any delay has to be agreed by the 27 other EU member states.


Interestingly, Donald Tusk on the EU side is going to propose that the EU offer a long delay. Upwards of a year. If that occurs, that opens up a whole slew of possibilities including a general election, negotiation of a new deal or even another referendum.

Clearly, the drama is far from over.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Diomedes, posted 03-13-2019 4:36 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14749
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 509 of 528 (849561)
03-14-2019 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Diomedes
03-14-2019 2:41 PM


Re: MPs vote for extension of Article 50
A pity that all the amendments were voted down or withdrawn. The Benn amendment failing by only 2 votes was especially sad.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 813
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 510 of 528 (849698)
03-18-2019 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 509 by PaulK
03-14-2019 3:52 PM


Bercow: Third Brexit vote must be different
quote:
John Bercow has ruled out another vote on the government's previously rejected Brexit agreement if the motion remains "substantially the same".

He told the Commons that parliamentary conventions dating back to 1604 meant MPs could not be asked to vote on precisely the same subject twice.

MPs rejected Theresa May's Brexit deal with the EU by 149 votes last week.

Mr Bercow's ruling came as the government considers a third attempt to get the deal through Parliament.

He said the second vote on the prime minister's deal last week was "in order" but any further votes must pass this "test" in order to be allowed.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47614074

That rules out another vote on May's deal in the short term.


This message is a reply to:
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