Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8905 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 04-23-2019 5:54 PM
27 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 850,128 Year: 5,165/19,786 Month: 1,287/873 Week: 183/460 Day: 28/97 Hour: 2/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
3435
36
373839Next
Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3863
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 526 of 577 (849773)
03-20-2019 8:47 PM


You do realize how much April advertising now needs revision.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by Diomedes, posted 03-22-2019 9:37 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 835
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 527 of 577 (849811)
03-22-2019 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by AZPaul3
03-20-2019 8:47 PM


Next steps may actually be more complex
As I was listening to the EU leaders speak and also doing some more reading, this situation may be far from over.

The current status is that the EU has said that if May's Deal is agreed to, they will have an extension up to May 22nd, 2019. However, if they reject May's Deal, the date will be up to April 12th, 2019 only.

What is interesting is the second date actually leaves the possibility for more options. What Tusk and Juncker have stated is that at that point, the UK needs to state their intentions and provide some plan. Which could include:

- Revoking Article 50
- Calling a general election
- Calling for another referendum
- Having a softer stance on Brexit and be willing to negotiate a new deal

So there is still a strong possibility this situation is far from over. If the UK says they want a longer extension to include possibilities for the other options like another referendum, than it is highly likely they may get something like a one year extension.

I believe the intention now is that May's Deal will be brought forward for another vote next week, just before the March 29th deadline. I think May is now trying to get some other reassurances from the EU on the verbiage in the deal, specifically the backstop. That may be enough differences for Bercow to allow the vote to proceed. So we shall see.

On a sidebar, British politics is WAAAAAY more interesting than American politics. I've watched CSPAN many times and it is boring as shit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by AZPaul3, posted 03-20-2019 8:47 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 528 by Tangle, posted 03-22-2019 10:27 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 528 of 577 (849812)
03-22-2019 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 527 by Diomedes
03-22-2019 9:37 AM


Re: Next steps may actually be more complex
Diomedes writes:

On a sidebar, British politics is WAAAAAY more interesting than American politics. I've watched CSPAN many times and it is boring as shit.

Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times”.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Diomedes, posted 03-22-2019 9:37 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 9:22 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 529 of 577 (849848)
03-23-2019 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 528 by Tangle
03-22-2019 10:27 AM


Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
I need to catch up on this whole Brexit stuff. EvC needs a blood transfusion.

Perhaps Percy and I can Stir Up some new conversations. Tangle, can you explain to me in a nutshell what direction British politics is heading? (nevermind...I'm reading this whole topic now... I think I've found my answer)

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Tangle, posted 03-22-2019 10:27 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by Tangle, posted 03-23-2019 12:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 532 by ringo, posted 03-23-2019 12:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 533 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2019 1:14 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 530 of 577 (849849)
03-23-2019 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by Tangle
03-12-2019 2:37 PM


Re: Brexit Deal Vote - The Latest
I love looking up your slang!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by Tangle, posted 03-12-2019 2:37 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


(2)
Message 531 of 577 (849858)
03-23-2019 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Phat
03-23-2019 9:22 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
Phat writes:

Tangle, can you explain to me in a nutshell what direction British politics is heading?

No, sorry. Ask me about quantum theory, it's easier.

It's also the same concept, anyone that tells you they know what the hell will happen is a liar.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 9:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 532 of 577 (849859)
03-23-2019 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Phat
03-23-2019 9:22 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
Phat writes:

can you explain to me in a nutshell what direction British politics is heading?


It's easier to get in than out, like a fish trap. Shoulda had a pre-nup.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 9:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14819
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 533 of 577 (849861)
03-23-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Phat
03-23-2019 9:22 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
Nobody knows what direction Brexit is going in.

May wants MPs to back her deal but they pretty much all hate her - even the Tories. (Many of whom are regretting the failed attempt to oust her last year, because the Party rules demand at least 12 months between attempts. If they tried it now, she’d be gone).

If a deal doesn’t pass the default is to exit with now deal, presumably on 12 April.

But Parliament voted against No Deal, so they may try to get a long extension or even cancel Brexit altogether. But they probably won’t get an extension unless they have a sensible plan (the EU generously allowed this extension even though May doesn’t have a sensible plan, but I don’t think that’s likely to extend much further),


This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 9:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by caffeine, posted 03-24-2019 5:26 AM PaulK has responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1624
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 534 of 577 (849881)
03-24-2019 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 533 by PaulK
03-23-2019 1:14 PM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
If a deal doesn’t pass the default is to exit with now deal, presumably on 12 April.

The default exit date remains March 29th (ie. Friday). That is still currently a matter of British law.

The significance of April 12th is that this is the date preparations for the European elections need to start, so the EU Council's conditions for an extension is that they expect to know the plan by then.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 533 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2019 1:14 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by PaulK, posted 03-24-2019 6:46 AM caffeine has not yet responded
 Message 537 by Phat, posted 03-24-2019 9:38 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14819
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 535 of 577 (849882)
03-24-2019 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 534 by caffeine
03-24-2019 5:26 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
I don’t see any problem in extending the date until April 12. The EU has agreed it, Parliament don’t want a crash-out and a crash-out with the extension there for the taking would make them look even more hopelessly incompetent than they already do.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by caffeine, posted 03-24-2019 5:26 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 536 by AZPaul3, posted 03-24-2019 8:20 AM PaulK has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3863
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 536 of 577 (849883)
03-24-2019 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 535 by PaulK
03-24-2019 6:46 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
So crash and burn.

Isn't April 12 now the default crash-out date?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by PaulK, posted 03-24-2019 6:46 AM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 540 by caffeine, posted 03-25-2019 2:02 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 537 of 577 (849884)
03-24-2019 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 534 by caffeine
03-24-2019 5:26 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
Politics is so nutty yet fascinating. I used to think of it rather simplistically...that on one side you had liberals and on the other conservatives...forever bickering and accusing each other. This year as I watch my labor union grapple with the Corporate behemoths, I realize that I have learned several new things. 40% of union s themselves are conservative. Now I'm not sure if this statistic includes paid union leadership, but logic would show that there is a synthesis there as well.

How this applies to European politics and how European political ideology differs from US ideology is at the moment unclear. I need a class on the subject or at least a good Wiki article.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by caffeine, posted 03-24-2019 5:26 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by PaulK, posted 03-24-2019 11:05 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 539 by Diomedes, posted 03-25-2019 9:25 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14819
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 538 of 577 (849887)
03-24-2019 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 537 by Phat
03-24-2019 9:38 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
In this case the left-right divide isn’t that important. There are hard-line Brexiteers in both Labour and Conservative parties. There are Remainers on both sides, too, although most are going along with Brexit - at least for now.

Then we have the smaller parties, notably the Democratic Unionist Party (a party from Northern Ireland, allied with the government but pretty hardline on this - and the politics of Northern Ireland are a whole extra problem). The Scottish Nationalist Party are not pro-Brexit at all and are likely to use it to bolster support for an independent Scotland - especially on a crash-out. The Liberal Democrats are anti-Brexit but have few seats - partly because the electorate decided to punish them for allying with the Conservatives (and because that alliance did not go well). The Independent Group is not a party but includes recent defectors from Labour (most) and the Conservatives and want a soft Brexit (or maybe none). I don’t think anyone else counts for much but there are others.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Phat, posted 03-24-2019 9:38 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 835
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 539 of 577 (849902)
03-25-2019 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 537 by Phat
03-24-2019 9:38 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
Phat, in case you are interested, this video has a good summary of where things are in the Brexit process and what the likely next steps might be:

That channel also has lots of videos that explain how things have progressed since the Brexit vote in case you want to get up to speed on how things transpired.

@Tangle: on a side-bar, the author of the above video used the word 'omni-shambles' in the dialog. I got a chuckle out of that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Phat, posted 03-24-2019 9:38 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1624
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 540 of 577 (849911)
03-25-2019 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by AZPaul3
03-24-2019 8:20 AM


Re: Moving Quietly Towards The Exit (Brexit)
So crash and burn.

Isn't April 12 now the default crash-out date?

No - Friday is still the default crash-out date, until such time as Parliament votes to change it. That much they should be able to manage before the week's out.

They have until April 12th to decide what to do with any extension they vote for. The European Council expects a plan by that point. Either they're supposed to have the current deal approved; or they start preparing for EU elections (in which case they're supposed to have a plan for going forward - whether that involves a new referendum or cancelling Brexit or whatever). If they don't acheive either of those things, then the UK leaves without a deal but, legally speaking, the date of that is not yet 100% clear.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by AZPaul3, posted 03-24-2019 8:20 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
RewPrev1
...
3435
36
373839Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019