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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1710
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 541 of 794 (849984)
03-28-2019 5:41 AM


Finally some clarity!
So after yesterday's series of indicative votes we finally have some clarity on the way forward!

Parliament is clearly opposed to the Prime Minister's Brexit deal.

Parliament is clearly opposed to all possible alternative Brexit deals.

Parliament is clearly opposed to Brexit without a deal.

Parliament is clearly opposed to stopping Brexit.

How far we've come after two years of discussion and negotiation. The mother of all Parliaments could teach Trump a thing or two about the art of the deal.


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7123
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 542 of 794 (849985)
03-28-2019 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 541 by caffeine
03-28-2019 5:41 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
And some people seem to think that the the deal is better when the deal-maker resigns after signing it - so much so that they'll vote for exactly the same deal that they previously violently opposed.

Some of these MPs need drowning in the Thames.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
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Posts: 15536
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(4)
Message 543 of 794 (849986)
03-28-2019 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 542 by Tangle
03-28-2019 6:05 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
quote:

Some of these MPs need drowning in the Thames.

That’s a horrid idea. It took a lot of effort to clean up the river.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by Tangle, posted 03-28-2019 6:05 AM Tangle has not yet responded

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vimesey
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Posts: 1010
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 544 of 794 (849987)
03-28-2019 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 543 by PaulK
03-28-2019 6:26 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
I forget which person made this comment, but it was something along the lines that MPs can have as many votes, and change their minds as many times as they like, but the Country for some reason is not given that option.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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Diomedes
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Posts: 918
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 545 of 794 (849994)
03-28-2019 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 542 by Tangle
03-28-2019 6:05 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
So Tangle, what's the British slang we need to now use in light of recent developments?

I believe so far, we have gone through:

- Quagmire
- Buggers muddle
- Omni-shambles
- Shitstorm
- Clusterfuck

I believe PaulK has proposed 'FUBAR' (Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition). Makes sense to me, but curious if there is another British term that might sum things up better. And 'Bollocks' isn't going to cut it.


This message is a reply to:
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Heathen
Member
Posts: 1063
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 546 of 794 (850000)
03-28-2019 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 544 by vimesey
03-28-2019 7:11 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
I think this might be the quote you were thinking of

https://www.indy100.com/...nservative-mp-ben-bradley-8841616

quote:
The conservative MP Ben Bradley is in the House of Commons. He voted to remain, then became a Brexiteer, then voted against the deal, then voted for the deal, then said he’d struggled to back the deal again but now says he will back the deal.„
Mr Bradley, why do you get to change your mind?

Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.


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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1010
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 547 of 794 (850002)
03-28-2019 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 545 by Diomedes
03-28-2019 9:29 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
I'll see if there's anything else I can dig up - but when it comes to Jacob Rees-Mogg, I like the portmanteau "smunt".

(The first of the originator words is "smug").


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by Diomedes, posted 03-28-2019 9:29 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1010
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 548 of 794 (850003)
03-28-2019 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 546 by Heathen
03-28-2019 10:18 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
That was it, thank you.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Heathen, posted 03-28-2019 10:18 AM Heathen has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7123
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 549 of 794 (850004)
03-28-2019 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 545 by Diomedes
03-28-2019 9:29 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
Diomedes writes:

So Tangle, what's the British slang we need to now use in light of recent developments?

I think our civil servants would call it a very unsatisfactory situation.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by Diomedes, posted 03-28-2019 9:29 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 918
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 550 of 794 (850029)
03-28-2019 4:13 PM


MPs asked to vote on withdrawal agreement only
quote:
MPs will be asked to vote again on Brexit on Friday but only on part of the deal negotiated with the EU.

They will vote on the withdrawal agreement on the Irish "backstop", divorce bill and citizens' rights.

But it will not amount to a third "meaningful vote" on the deal, as it will not include a vote on the UK's future relationship with the EU.

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said Theresa May was essentially asking MPs to turn it into a game of two halves - just voting on the first part of the deal which sorts out the UK's departure and leaving the longer term part for the next few weeks.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47740158

So if I am reading that right, they are essentially partitioning May's Deal into component pieces and voting on those. As a stop gap to get the extra extension time as dictated by the EU.

Will the EU even consider that valid? It seems like its a way to get May's Deal to a house vote to circumvent Bercow's edict. However, its not really a vote on the whole deal.

This is honestly starting to remind me of a Monty Python skit.....


Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1710
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 551 of 794 (850030)
03-28-2019 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Heathen
03-28-2019 10:18 AM


Re: Finally some clarity!
The conservative MP Ben Bradley is in the House of Commons. He voted to remain, then became a Brexiteer, then voted against the deal, then voted for the deal, then said he’d struggled to back the deal again but now says he will back the deal

He's the MP for my hometown. He holds the distinction of being the only Tory elected to represent Mansfield since the establishment of democratic elections. In fairness to him, the Leave vote in that area was overwhelming.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Heathen, posted 03-28-2019 10:18 AM Heathen has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 918
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 552 of 794 (850048)
03-29-2019 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by Diomedes
03-28-2019 4:13 PM


Re: MPs asked to vote on withdrawal agreement only
And for the hat trick, May's Deal (or at least part of it) has been defeated for a third time.

quote:
MPs have rejected Theresa May’s EU withdrawal agreement on the day the UK was due to leave the EU.

The government lost by 344 votes to 286, a margin of 58.

It means the UK has missed an EU deadline to delay Brexit to 22 May and leave with a deal.

The prime minister said the UK would have to find "an alternative way forward", which was "almost certain" to involve holding European elections.

Thousands of Leave supporters gathered outside Parliament to protest against the delay to Brexit, bringing traffic to a standstill.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47752017

So now the stage is set for more indicative votes come Monday. The 'official' deadline is now April 12th, since the May 22nd extension date was only valid if May's Deal was approved.


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7123
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 553 of 794 (850049)
03-29-2019 3:09 PM


Two year delay, followed by referendum where the vote is 55/45 remain.

A boy can hope.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by caffeine, posted 03-29-2019 3:45 PM Tangle has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4720
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 554 of 794 (850050)
03-29-2019 3:14 PM


That kind of political fragmentation in Parliament cannot continue. Someone from somewhere is going to bring this government down forcing new elections.

Or, like having Her Majesty behead Theresa May, do you guys not collapse ineffective governments anymore either?

Can anyone in Parliament say they have any confidence in this government at all?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1710
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 555 of 794 (850051)
03-29-2019 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Tangle
03-29-2019 3:09 PM


Two year delay, followed by referendum where the vote is 55/45 remain.

A boy can hope.

If you're going to hope then hope for something like 68% remain - as anything less means at least a decade of hearing people moan about the people's will being ignored.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 556 by Tangle, posted 03-29-2019 5:07 PM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
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