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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 883
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 676 of 717 (858708)
07-23-2019 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 674 by Heathen
07-23-2019 5:50 AM


Boris Johnson is new PM
Happy Boris Day everyone!
future generations will mark this day by wearing ridiculous blonde wigs and spending the day lying compulsively, to remember when the UK got its worst Prime minister ever.

Not really a surprise at this stage. But nonetheless, Boris is the new PM. I see the Pound Sterling is already down in trading.

Now comes the interesting part: how will he fix Brexit? Not sure he even knows.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by Heathen, posted 07-23-2019 5:50 AM Heathen has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 677 by jar, posted 07-23-2019 8:28 AM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 682 by Taq, posted 07-23-2019 5:50 PM Diomedes has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 677 of 717 (858710)
07-23-2019 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 676 by Diomedes
07-23-2019 8:07 AM


Re: Boris Johnson is new PM
Worry not. He will make England Great Again!

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by Diomedes, posted 07-23-2019 8:07 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by Chiroptera, posted 07-23-2019 12:30 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 681 by Taq, posted 07-23-2019 5:46 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 678 of 717 (858731)
07-23-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by vimesey
07-23-2019 6:16 AM


Vimesey writes:

And voted for by an electorate of approx 0.2% of the population. Democracy in action eh ?


It's the nature of the beast. In Canada, we got Pierre Trudeau in the same way and he was one of our best Prime Ministers.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by vimesey, posted 07-23-2019 6:16 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by vimesey, posted 07-23-2019 1:08 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6761
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.4


(3)
Message 679 of 717 (858737)
07-23-2019 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by jar
07-23-2019 8:28 AM


Re: Boris Johnson is new PM
MEGA hats?

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by jar, posted 07-23-2019 8:28 AM jar has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 972
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 680 of 717 (858765)
07-23-2019 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 678 by ringo
07-23-2019 12:09 PM


It's the nature of the beast. In Canada, we got Pierre Trudeau in the same way and he was one of our best Prime Ministers.

Something tells me our mileage will differ ;-)


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 678 by ringo, posted 07-23-2019 12:09 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7997
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 681 of 717 (858783)
07-23-2019 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by jar
07-23-2019 8:28 AM


Re: Boris Johnson is new PM
jar writes:

Worry not. He will make England Great Again!

What about Wales, Scotland, and N. Ireland? I'm thinking N. Ireland, and Ireland proper, aren't going to be too happy at the end of this one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by jar, posted 07-23-2019 8:28 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 7997
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 682 of 717 (858784)
07-23-2019 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 676 by Diomedes
07-23-2019 8:07 AM


Re: Boris Johnson is new PM
Diomedes writes:

Now comes the interesting part: how will he fix Brexit? Not sure he even knows.

He will probably adopt his predecessor's policy and just repeat irrelevant facts:

"Brexit means Brexit."--Theresa May


This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by Diomedes, posted 07-23-2019 8:07 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 684 by Diomedes, posted 07-24-2019 9:36 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31162
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 683 of 717 (858795)
07-23-2019 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 681 by Taq
07-23-2019 5:46 PM


Re: Boris Johnson is new PM
If the folk from Wales, Scotland, and N. Ireland don't like it they can just go back where they came from.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Taq, posted 07-23-2019 5:46 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 883
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 684 of 717 (858815)
07-24-2019 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 682 by Taq
07-23-2019 5:50 PM


Re: Boris Johnson is new PM
He will probably adopt his predecessor's policy and just repeat irrelevant facts:

"Brexit means Brexit."--Theresa May

I'm still waiting for discussions around rebuilding Hadrian's Wall. And I hope it will be YUUUUUUGE!! Gotta keep them pesky Scot's at bay, don't yah know?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 682 by Taq, posted 07-23-2019 5:50 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 883
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 685 of 717 (858953)
07-26-2019 9:24 AM


So now what?
Boris is now PM. He indicated he is going to negotiate a new deal with the EU and also demand removal of the Irish backstop.

The EU has stated that there will be no further negotiations on the existing deal and that the Irish backstop has to remain in place.

Who is going to blink?


Replies to this message:
 Message 686 by PaulK, posted 07-26-2019 9:57 AM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 687 by Taq, posted 07-26-2019 10:38 AM Diomedes has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15315
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 686 of 717 (858958)
07-26-2019 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 685 by Diomedes
07-26-2019 9:24 AM


Re: So now what?
I think Boris’s plan is No Deal and blame the EU.

He hasn’t got time for big changes to the deal, and the backstop is staying. An Ireland-only backstop might fly with some but the DUP will not wear it, and Boris needs them to stay in power.

So what other alternative does he have?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 685 by Diomedes, posted 07-26-2019 9:24 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7997
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 687 of 717 (858962)
07-26-2019 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 685 by Diomedes
07-26-2019 9:24 AM


Re: So now what?
Diomedes writes:

Who is going to blink?

PM Johnson may not blink, but Parliament will. The EU has major leverage with the Irish border, and I expect they will use it to the fullest.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 685 by Diomedes, posted 07-26-2019 9:24 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 688 by Diomedes, posted 07-27-2019 11:52 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 883
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 688 of 717 (859031)
07-27-2019 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 687 by Taq
07-26-2019 10:38 AM


Re: So now what?
PM Johnson may not blink, but Parliament will. The EU has major leverage with the Irish border, and I expect they will use it to the fullest.

I just wonder how much clout Parliament will actually have considering the circumstances. While Johnson is maintaining the premise of wanting an augmented deal, he has no qualms about no deal. And despite some of the recent voting in Parliament, that is the default option.

The only way to avoid a no deal if the current deal cannot be augmented is getting another extension or revoking article 50. I don't see either of those scenarios as being likely. And I don't know if Parliament can vote on a general election. I think that can only be called by the Prime Minister. Correct me if I am wrong.
And that notwithstanding, there is insufficient time to have a general election before the October 31st deadline.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Taq, posted 07-26-2019 10:38 AM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 689 by caffeine, posted 07-28-2019 11:26 AM Diomedes has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1682
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 689 of 717 (859089)
07-28-2019 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 688 by Diomedes
07-27-2019 11:52 AM


Re: So now what?
The only way to avoid a no deal if the current deal cannot be augmented is getting another extension or revoking article 50. I don't see either of those scenarios as being likely. And I don't know if Parliament can vote on a general election. I think that can only be called by the Prime Minister. Correct me if I am wrong.
And that notwithstanding, there is insufficient time to have a general election before the October 31st deadline.

The PM no longer has the power to call an early election. Parliament can, but it needs a two-thirds majority to do so. What they could do is vote no confidence in Johnson's government, and then if no one else can form a government within two weeks an election has to be held.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 688 by Diomedes, posted 07-27-2019 11:52 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 690 by Diomedes, posted 07-29-2019 10:26 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 883
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 690 of 717 (859148)
07-29-2019 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 689 by caffeine
07-28-2019 11:26 AM


Re: So now what?
The PM no longer has the power to call an early election. Parliament can, but it needs a two-thirds majority to do so. What they could do is vote no confidence in Johnson's government, and then if no one else can form a government within two weeks an election has to be held.

My suspicion is a 2/3rds majority is not likely. I suppose a vote of no confidence is a possibility, but being that this is a new PM with a new cabinet, that may not get traction either.

I guess as the situation unfolds, things and sentiment may change. But we are only three months away from the deadline. And I don't see Johnson asking for any extension at this stage since he is hell bent on leaving on October 31st. And there is no guarantee that the EU would even grant one.

The most disconcerting thing is I still have not heard one, tangible idea for solving the Irish backstop issue. All I hear is platitudes. If they exit on October 31st, doesn't that in essence ensure a hard border in Northern Ireland? I keep hearing them mention technology. But that actually has to be built and implemented. Don't think there has been any headway in that department.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 689 by caffeine, posted 07-28-2019 11:26 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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