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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
Diomedes
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Posts: 902
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 721 of 771 (861855)
08-28-2019 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 720 by Percy
08-28-2019 10:13 AM


Re: Johnson asks Queen to suspend Parliament
I'm probably walking out on a pretty thin branch commenting on British politics, but aren't requests like this to the monarch just a formality, always rubber stamped?

Appears you are right Percy. The latest update is that Parliament will in fact be suspended starting in September:

quote:
Parliament will be suspended just days after MPs return to work in September - and only a few weeks before the Brexit deadline.

Boris Johnson said a Queen's Speech would take place after the suspension, on 14 October, to outline his "very exciting agenda".

But it means the time MPs have to pass laws to stop a no-deal Brexit on 31 October would be cut.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49493632


This message is a reply to:
 Message 720 by Percy, posted 08-28-2019 10:13 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
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Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 722 of 771 (861862)
08-28-2019 11:41 AM


She could refuse, but convention is that she won't.
I believe the last time a king intervened it caused a civil war.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 723 by Diomedes, posted 08-28-2019 12:17 PM Tangle has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 902
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 723 of 771 (861865)
08-28-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by Tangle
08-28-2019 11:41 AM


So what is the likelihood that a vote of no confidence in the government can still occur? Do MPs have enough time to do that before parliament is suspended? I think there is a few days in September that could still allow them to do that.
If the vote is successful, does that have the possibility of negating the suspension of parliament?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Tangle, posted 08-28-2019 11:41 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 724 by Tangle, posted 08-28-2019 12:54 PM Diomedes has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 724 of 771 (861872)
08-28-2019 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 723 by Diomedes
08-28-2019 12:17 PM


From what I hear, they're going for a legal challenge first. But this has come out of the blue, the opposition is playing catchup.

btw, Queenie has now agreed.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 723 by Diomedes, posted 08-28-2019 12:17 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by Diomedes, posted 08-28-2019 3:31 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 902
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 725 of 771 (861884)
08-28-2019 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 724 by Tangle
08-28-2019 12:54 PM


From what I hear, they're going for a legal challenge first. But this has come out of the blue, the opposition is playing catchup.
btw, Queenie has now agreed.

This article from the BBC does a nice job summing things up:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49495757

Some key points:

quote:
Is it legal to suspend Parliament?
Yes. It's what normally happens between the end of one session and the beginning of the next. However, the circumstances are unusual.

A legal challenge would be difficult, since the government isn't breaking any law. It's just using parliamentary procedure, as Mr Johnson tries to fulfil his campaign promise to get the UK out of the EU.

MPs could either go along with the suspension, with the risk of a no-deal Brexit, or they could trigger an election with a vote of no confidence in the government.


quote:
What happens next?
Good question.

Parliament will go back to work next Tuesday 3 September, but will then go into recess.

If Mr Johnson gets his way, Parliament returns on 14 October, two-and-a-half weeks before the UK leaves the EU.

However, if MPs pass a vote of no-confidence before 10 September, there could be a general election in October.


quote:
If there's an election, will Brexit still happen?
That depends. If the Conservatives win, then yes. They're ahead in the opinion polls, at about 31% last week, after Mr Johnson took over from the previous Prime Minister, Theresa May, in July.

The main opposition Labour Party is trailing by 10 to 12 points, on about 21%. Labour is divided between traditional working-class areas, which tend to support Brexit, and voters in cities like London who are more in favour of remaining in the EU.

But a Conservative win is not necessarily in the bag. Other parties, including the centre-left Liberal Democrats and the Scottish Nationalists, are all staunchly opposed to Brexit on any terms.


Incidentally, the Sterling just took a hit as well. Wonder where it might end up after all this is done.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 726 by jar, posted 08-28-2019 5:13 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
jar
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Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 726 of 771 (861889)
08-28-2019 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 725 by Diomedes
08-28-2019 3:31 PM


Diomedes writes:

Incidentally, the Sterling just took a hit as well. Wonder where it might end up after all this is done.

Hopefully at Par with the Euro but maybe Par with the Dollar.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Diomedes
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Posts: 902
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 727 of 771 (861919)
08-29-2019 11:49 AM


Jonathan Pie strikes again


  
Diomedes
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Posts: 902
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 728 of 771 (862230)
09-03-2019 9:19 AM


Brexit Showdown
quote:
The PM faces a showdown in Parliament later as MPs aim to take control of the agenda to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Ex-chancellor and Tory rebel Philip Hammond said he thought there was enough support for the bill, seeking to delay the UK's exit date, to pass.

No 10 officials warned the prime minister would push for an election on 14 October if the government lost.

Boris Johnson said he did not want an election, but progress with the EU would be "impossible" if MPs won.

Last ditch efforts to get the Tory rebels on side have been taking place, but BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said the meeting between the prime minister and the group went "less than swimmingly" and was "less than cordial".

There are thought to be about 15 confirmed Tory rebels - set against the government's working majority of just one.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49560557

Should be an interesting week in British politics.


Replies to this message:
 Message 729 by Theodoric, posted 09-03-2019 11:59 AM Diomedes has responded

  
Theodoric
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Posts: 6592
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 729 of 771 (862267)
09-03-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 728 by Diomedes
09-03-2019 9:19 AM


Re: Brexit Showdown
Things just got a bit more tricky for Boris.

quote:
Boris Johnson has seen his one-vote Commons majority vanish before his eyes, as a statement by the prime minister to parliament was undermined by the very public defection of the Conservative MP Phillip Lee to the Liberal Democrats.
The stunt, in which the pro-remain Bracknell MP walked across the chamber to the Lib Dem benches flanked by two of his new colleagues, happened as Johnson updated the Commons on last month’s G7 summit, a statement devoted mainly to Brexit.


https://www.theguardian.com/...government-without-a-majority

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by Diomedes, posted 09-03-2019 9:19 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 730 by Diomedes, posted 09-03-2019 2:21 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 902
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 730 of 771 (862278)
09-03-2019 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 729 by Theodoric
09-03-2019 11:59 AM


Re: Brexit Showdown
It looks like the rebel MPs have at least crossed the first hurdle with regards to procedure, since the House Speaker has granted them the opportunity to debate and potentially take control of the House of Common's agenda:

quote:
Tory rebels and opposition MPs have cleared the first hurdle in their attempt to pass a law designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

Commons Speaker John Bercow granted them a debate and a vote on taking control of the Commons agenda.

If successful, they would be able to bring forward a bill seeking to delay the UK's exit date beyond 31 October.

No 10 officials have warned the prime minister will push for an election if they succeed.



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49573138

What I am trying to wrap my head around is if they succeed, Johnson will likely call for an election. However, he needs a two-thirds majority for that to succeed and from what I read, he likely won't get it. So you will effectively have a Parliament who wants to delay Brexit (or outright cancel it) and a PM that doesn't want to ask for a further extension or cancel Brexit. Legislatively, I am not certain if Parliament can ask the EU for an extension on their own. I am wondering if this might turn into another round of indicative voting like before, which yielded nothing.

Also not sure how the House of Lords factors into this and whether they can approve or block certain legislative acts. Maybe the Brits on this board can chime in on that.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 731 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2019 2:42 PM Diomedes has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 731 of 771 (862279)
09-03-2019 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 730 by Diomedes
09-03-2019 2:21 PM


Re: Brexit Showdo
The plan is to pass a bill which requires the PM to ask for an extension rather than crash out with No Deal. I can see BoJo ignoring it and letting the crash out happen anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 730 by Diomedes, posted 09-03-2019 2:21 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 732 by Diomedes, posted 09-03-2019 3:12 PM PaulK has responded

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 902
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 732 of 771 (862282)
09-03-2019 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 731 by PaulK
09-03-2019 2:42 PM


Re: Brexit Showdo
The plan is to pass a bill which requires the PM to ask for an extension rather than crash out with No Deal. I can see BoJo ignoring it and letting the crash out happen anyway.

That is kind of the aspect of things I really don't understand. Can he ignore it, or is he beholden to the will of Parliament in this circumstance? I honestly don't get the legislative aspect of all these shenanigans.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 731 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2019 2:42 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 733 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2019 3:31 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 733 of 771 (862283)
09-03-2019 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 732 by Diomedes
09-03-2019 3:12 PM


Re: Brexit Showdo
it would be illegal to ignore it, but illegal isn’t the same as impossible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by Diomedes, posted 09-03-2019 3:12 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4512
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 734 of 771 (862295)
09-03-2019 6:51 PM


OK, so Parliament now controls Parliament rather than the government controlling Parliament.

No friggin idea how that works but then I can't understand why Queenie doesn't just dissolve the whole lot and, now that Theresa May is no longer on the scene, take Boris' head.

So the PM threatens snap elections. What threaten? Seems the only reasonable thing to do but only about a year late.

So now what?

BTW, what does it mean that the gov't no longer "controls" Parliament? Was it just a government rubber stamp up 'til now?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 735 by DrJones*, posted 09-03-2019 7:59 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1933
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 735 of 771 (862304)
09-03-2019 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 734 by AZPaul3
09-03-2019 6:51 PM


BTW, what does it mean that the gov't no longer "controls" Parliament? Was it just a government rubber stamp up 'til now?

i believe it means that the government no longer gets to decide what bills are to be voted on. disclaimer: not a UK person.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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