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Author Topic:   The Great Creationist Fossil Failure
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 124 of 1163 (786345)
06-20-2016 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
06-20-2016 2:03 PM


Re: The Redwall Limestone: A Case In Point
I'd be happy to grant you a point here and there if you all ever granted me even one, let alone the dozen or so I should have had by now.
Unfairly, I treat things supported by evidence as more significant than things supported by Because Faith Says So.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 06-20-2016 2:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 5:34 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 129 of 1163 (786417)
06-21-2016 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
06-21-2016 4:01 PM


Re: Limestones, trilobites and so-called faunal succession.
I thought there must be evidence of volcanism somewhere in the UK as the continents broke apart right there.
There was some vulcanism, yes. Well done.
How volcanoes shaped Britain's landscape
Of course today, those long enduring volcanic fires are extinguished. The last hurrah of the UK volcano was about 55 million years ago, when an extraordinary fiery outburst accompanied the wrenching open of the North Atlantic ocean.
All along what is now the western shores of Scotland, huge volcanic centres erupted colossal quantities of magma. The islands of Arran, Mull and Skye are among the remains of a chain of volcanoes that draped much of northern Britain and Ireland in enormous amounts of lava and volcanic ash.
Deeper fracture lines radiating out from these centres injected Hebridean magma as far south as the North Sea coast of Yorkshire, travelling the 400km in something like five days!
But such volcanic violence was not to last. Over millions of years, the spreading of the Atlantic seaway shunted eastward Hebridean volcanoes away from the well of superheated rock that originally fed them, so that, today, that upwelling now feeds the craters and geysers of Iceland.
How on earth could you possibly determine that the organisms found in higher limestones descended from lower?
If you do not know what faunal succession is, perhaps you should not be discussing paleontology.
Maybe you should have read my book, the one you have so often claimed to have read and to be largely in agreement with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 4:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 5:08 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 135 of 1163 (786431)
06-21-2016 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Faith
06-21-2016 5:34 PM


Re: The Redwall Limestone: A Case In Point
Your evidence for faunal succession is nothing but the imaginative assessment of plausibility, it is NOT real evidence.
You still don't know what faunal succession is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 5:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 139 of 1163 (786435)
06-21-2016 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
06-21-2016 6:40 PM


Re: The Redwall Limestone: A Case In Point
And everyone would know that the timing was a mirage if God hadn't done magic to arrange all the absolute dates produced by radiometric methods to agree with the relative dating produced by paleontological methods. Perhaps next time you pray you could ask him to stop lying to geologists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 6:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by edge, posted 06-21-2016 6:57 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 143 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 10:11 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 144 of 1163 (786446)
06-21-2016 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Faith
06-21-2016 9:58 PM


Re: Volcanoes in the UK
India of course as it collided with Asia, perhaps some other small events like that ...
You have not lost your ability to make me laugh.
However, if you want to talk about continents rifting and colliding, please make the main thrust of your argument about the fossil evidence, as this is the topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 9:58 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 145 of 1163 (786447)
06-21-2016 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Faith
06-21-2016 10:11 PM


Re: The Redwall Limestone: A Case In Point
Millions of years is just too absurd on the face of it to account for the formation of different species. Evolution that is actually observed occurs fairly rapidly. It depends on variations already programmed into the genome of each creature or Kind that can form new species when new traits are selected and isolated. The amount of trial and error and death that would have to occur in a million years, let alone the hundreds of millions imputed by the ToE just to get from reptiles to mammals is beyond anything that could realistically occur.
Show your working. On a thread on which it would be relevant. Then I'll show you mine, which will be easier 'cos I've actually done some instead of just making shit up.
I don't know why it's wrong but it's obviously wrong.
Do you ever stop and listen to yourself saying stuff like that and wonder about yourself?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Faith, posted 06-21-2016 10:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 157 of 1163 (786821)
06-27-2016 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by mike the wiz
06-27-2016 4:18 PM


This is APPALLING reasoning, called, Arguing from silence fallacy.
Argument from silence - Wikipedia
You might at least learn the meanings of the terms you throw around.
The fact is you SHOULD know that on the pre-flood continent both species could have been separated by ecological zonation, by thousands of miles.
Claims of "ecological zoning" were answered in my post.
Your argument is that if a flood happened today, you should be found in the same strata as your friend who lives 2,000 miles away from you.
Please do not lie to me about what my argument is.
This really is awesome, because it is so backward. Do you think one of the most complex eyes, the aggregate eye, from a trilobite, was, "simple".
No, of course not. Why do you ask? Have you hit your head on something?
But what you fail to know or either deliberately OMIT, is that in some places there isn't even found a cambrian-era. Here you make it seems as though there is neat an uniform fossil-record, with every strata, neatly laid down all over the earth.
I do know that, which is why I do not in any way "make it seems as though there is neat an uniform fossil-record, with every strata, neatly laid down all over the earth".
You also fail to mention that we find, "marine fossils" in every layer ...
That is because I am not a liar.
... not just the bottom layer like you want to make out.
That is not what I "want to make out" and I explicitly say the exact opposite. I quote the creationist Henry Morris saying it, and then point out why it's complete bollocks. Once more I have to wonder if you have hit your head on something.
This is amusing considering you think the fossil-record is a, (and I quote) "apartment complex".
No I do not. As people can see who (a) bothered to read my post (b) are not suffering from severe concussion.
Oh I see it, but it's all of that negative-evidence which I don't see, that counts.
Your ignorance of the fossil record does not "count for" anything.
So for the sake of argument, even if the fossil record didn't favour a flood, what makes you think that this would somehow favour evolution?
I think that the aspects that favor evolution favor evolution. In this particular post, I was analyzing the conspicuous failure of the creationists not the triumphant success of the evolutionists.
No true scotsman fallacy. If there are creationists with genuine scientific qualifications, then they are, "real" scientists, so the term, "real" is a question-begging-epithet.
I said that real scientists tend to call it "hydraulic sorting". This is true.
For me the, "great creationist fossil failure" is the greatest rhetorical-epithetical baloney of this thread. In case you haven't studied logic 101, if I find in the fossils, when looking for a pine tree, an identical 250 million year old pine tree with no evolutionary ancestors, then that is the only logical, "success" I can hope to find. If a flood largely created the fossils, and animal kinds have always been the same, then I would expect to find that very thing, no matter what the layer is. It also would not matter the evolutionary-age of the layer, for all layers, or most, would have been laid down in one year.
So logically speaking, the fossil record is the greatest success we could hope for, for if we argued apriori what the fossils should contain, and if we had never known what they yet contained, we would predict as creationists that we would find the same animals that look identical. And if evolutionists had never seen the fossil record, since their theory explains how everything on earth was created by evolution, the correct logical prediction would be that the fossils would generally show evolutionary change, not, "stasis". Putting the word, "evolution" before stasis might make a nice oxymoron, but let's face it, in order for a jellyfish to become a jellyfish I don't need evolution, I JUST NEED JELLYFISH! (Occam's razor)
So, you have no explanation for the order in the fossil record?
I thought not.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by mike the wiz, posted 06-27-2016 4:18 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 158 of 1163 (786823)
06-27-2016 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by mike the wiz
06-27-2016 5:39 PM


Dr A, just a question out of general interest. I notice you always say, in many of your posts and threads, "creationists do X" or, "creationists say P". I am just wondering, since I am a dim creationist, why you don't seem to notice that it is a logical error to treat a group as an individual person?
I will concede that (since creationism is not based in reality) creationism has not achieved the same sort of consensus that we so often find in real science. On the other hand, since creationists rarely invent their own bullshit, but rather accept it wholesale from their leaders, there is a sort of mainstream creationist position on the fossil record, and I have stated it perfectly fairly.
If you are aware of a different set of pathetic excuses for the appearance of the fossil record which you would like me to have a look at, please feel free to provide me with a link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by mike the wiz, posted 06-27-2016 5:39 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 162 of 1163 (786827)
06-27-2016 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by edge
06-27-2016 7:39 PM


I think you are confusing the geological time scale with the stratigraphic column.
I think he's confusing me with Henry Morris, but it's hard to tell what's going on in his head.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by edge, posted 06-27-2016 7:39 PM edge has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 168 of 1163 (786859)
06-28-2016 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by edge
06-28-2016 10:54 AM


Re: The creationist "hypothetical geologic column"
I thought maybe we could wait to see exactly what Mick wants to discuss.
He rarely wants to discuss anything. He's the forum equivalent of the kid who dumps a flaming bag of poop on your doorstep, rings the bell, and runs away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by edge, posted 06-28-2016 10:54 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by edge, posted 06-28-2016 3:32 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 175 of 1163 (786921)
06-29-2016 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by mike the wiz
06-29-2016 12:28 PM


Well, technically speaking what do you define them as? Do you define them as, "eras" ...
They're periods. Sheesh.
... because if you do, you should know that they don't come with evolutionary tags on them.
No, they come with fossils and various radioactive isotopes in them.
This is why this thread is called "The Great Creationist Fossil Failure" and not "The Great Creationist Evolutionary Tags Failure".
Now, would you like to try to explain the fossil record in terms of creationist fantasies, or are you having too much fun proving my point for me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by mike the wiz, posted 06-29-2016 12:28 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by mike the wiz, posted 06-29-2016 1:00 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 189 of 1163 (786950)
06-29-2016 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by mike the wiz
06-29-2016 1:00 PM


No, ROCKS come with fossils and isotopes in them Dr A.
That's what I said.
Goodness me, don't tell me you think a neurosis exists in the rocks?
No, of course I don't think that. Are you insane?
Your neurotic agreement that the rocks are ages, exists between your ears, Sir.
I did not agree to that. Are you insane?
Or are you saying rocks don't exist and eras do?
Of course I am not saying that. Are you insane?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by mike the wiz, posted 06-29-2016 1:00 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 190 of 1163 (786951)
06-29-2016 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by mike the wiz
06-29-2016 1:30 PM


We have explanations ...
Can you produce one, or would you rather pollute my thread with insane gibberish?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by mike the wiz, posted 06-29-2016 1:30 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 191 of 1163 (786952)
06-29-2016 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by mike the wiz
06-29-2016 1:56 PM


I think you guys have fed on me long enough ...
So you are going to run off without discussing the topic?
As the remainder of your gibberish is not (so far as one can tell) relevant to the topic, or to any topic, or to reality, it does not seem to merit a reply so much as a get-well card.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by mike the wiz, posted 06-29-2016 1:56 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 197 of 1163 (786983)
06-30-2016 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by mike the wiz
06-30-2016 7:15 AM


Bot Verification...
"Khan...you had it your way once, are you game for a re-match?.....Khan?....I'm LAUGHING at the "superior" intellect!" - Captain Kirk - The Wrath Of Khan
So, you have no explanation for the order in the fossil record?
Thought not.
And it seems that you wish to expose your pitiful ignorance on a creationist forum where it will go unchallenged. But Mike, that doesn't stop it from being stupid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by mike the wiz, posted 06-30-2016 7:15 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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