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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 49 of 1257 (787941)
07-24-2016 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
07-23-2016 11:52 PM


Re: The theory sometimes doesn't fit the facts
"The landscape is the sediment on top" doesn't convey anything to me. I want to know how the landscape forms at all on top of a rock that is a layer in the strata, a landscape with everything needed to sustain life. When does it occur, how does it occur.

I'll give this question a shot. But really my explanation is simply a description of part of the rock cycle as taught primary school earth science classes.

Landscapes form in soil. Soil is largely sediment plus decaying remains of organic material plus water plus minerals and nitrogen compounds. The old layers of rock are of course below the soil. In a depositional environment, sediment can form on top of the current level, possibly becoming more soil if there are enough mineral, organic matter etc. in the environment. Eventually, the lower levels of soil can become sedimentary rock through lithification.

Because the pressure required for lithification is highest at the bottom(feel free to ask why if such a thing is not obvious), the newest layer of sedimentary rock must be expected to form first at the bottom of the soil layer if it occurs at all. That readily explains what is found when the layers are examined.

Now maybe you don't believe that such a thing actually did happen, but if you want to support your position as announced in the OP, you need to explain why that mechanism could not at least hypothetically work, or alternatively to show that it did not occur.

It is my suspicion that the basis for your position is simply a lack of knowledge of or ability to imagine the mechanisms that geologist say work. Dr. Adequate has explained the mechanism in his posts. Beyond that, the mechanism is taught in elementary/junior high school earth science classes. Thirdly, it is extremely easy to find an explanation with even a moments worth of googling. Terms like "soil becomes rock" turn up lots of explanation. So the problem is certainly not that science does not provide a viable mechanism. And of course for the purpose of this discussion whether or not you believe those sources is irrelevant.

Now a question for you. How you can demonstrate that the mechanisms that geologists say occur are wrong when you don't appear to have any idea what those proposed mechanisms are? Why is it not your responsibility to find out what those mechanisms are before starting a thread claiming to have eliminated all possible explanations other than the Flood?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 07-23-2016 11:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 2:42 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 1257 (787944)
07-24-2016 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
07-24-2016 2:42 AM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
I'm trying to get the official picture here because I'm debating it and there's nothing more frustrating than having to deal with a bunch of half-baked scenarios

In short this thread reflects your own ignorance regarding the topic and is not, and cannot be an assessment of what geologists actually think. Thanks for confirming that.

And remember, what I want to know is the official explanation of how a landscape forms ON TOP OF A STRATUM, then how it comes to disappear so that all we have next is another stratum of sediment.

You've been given that explanation several times. My explanation is no different from the other explanations you've been given. I only offered mine because you claimed not to understand anyone else's.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 2:42 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 1257 (787945)
07-24-2016 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by vimesey
07-24-2016 3:34 AM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
That's the sequence you need to get - first it's strata of living landscape, some of which, millions of years later, then lithify into rock.

I'd further add, that when you see rock on the surface, that can be because the soil has been removed by one or more processes including erosion. If there is some mystery here, then perhaps Faith owes some explanation of where the puzzle lies.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by vimesey, posted 07-24-2016 3:34 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 72 of 1257 (787991)
07-24-2016 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
07-24-2016 8:44 AM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Those fossilized creatures would have had no place to go when that "landscape" eventually disappeared.

This is hilarious. The fossilized creatures were dead. And of course we are talking about creatures that are currently extinct, so the fact that they had no place to go when their landscape disappeared would not be a problem.

But landscapes are on top of layers. If you see an exposed layer, that means that the landscape has been removed by some process such as erosion or being buried under lava. Still not a problem either way.

Dinosaurs are supposed to have roamed all over that territory during this time period with its dinosaur-friendly imaginary landscape

Very few of those dinosaurs ever became fossils.

Beyond that, given the descriptions of how strata are formed, it is possible that their could always have been a top layer of sediment and soil during the time when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. The key is that strata form bottom up and not top down. The rock can form regardless of the whether layers above are rock or landscape.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 8:44 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:45 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 1257 (788004)
07-24-2016 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Faith
07-24-2016 3:45 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Landscapes occur on top of exposed layers, but never occurred on any layer that is still in the stack.

That is a made up premise that you cannot demonstrate to be correct.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 4:25 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 1257 (788022)
07-24-2016 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
07-24-2016 4:25 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Far be it from me to expect to "demonstrate" anything to anyone here. But it's an OBSERVATION of mine that NOTHING happened between the layers EVER, and I've spent a lot of time arguing that quite well in my opinion.

For good reason. Anything sediment between the layers would have lithified. What you are supposed to be demonstrating is that there was never any soil on top of any layers. And you have utterly failed to offer any reason, evidence, or argument for such a thing.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 4:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 07-25-2016 1:41 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 160 of 1257 (788113)
07-26-2016 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
07-26-2016 4:11 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
The idea is that at some point a clear contradiction should be found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas.

But you haven't found that yet. Your original idea did not pan out, so now we are waiting for you to come up with something else.

Here is my question. Why are you pretending that you can actually find clues about history in the strata, when your actual claim is that doing such a thing is the fatal flaw of the historical sciences? Isn't trying to read the past from such evidence exactly the same nonsense that you accuse geologists of doing?

Not that I share your opinion regarding geology and paleontology, but reading your posts in which you mangle the information in maps, and other posts in which you tell us that there is no evidence of soil or rivers or anything else in those rocks, all while basing your arguments on maps produced by geologists of what the terrain from millions of years ago does tickle my funny bone quite a bit. Surely it is impossible to accomplish your goal in this fashion unless those scientists were complete idiots.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 4:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:23 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:30 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 1257 (788161)
07-26-2016 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
07-26-2016 11:30 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
However, It has occurred to me that an actual contradiction between the geological fantasies of the former time periods, and something like the observable shorelines of former bodies of water, could emerge and expose the fantasy.

Again, that would only be true if geologists were frauds or incompetent. Your only information in this Quixotic quest is what those scientists have provided. So far what has "occurred to" you is naught point zip.

There are also issues with Stonehenge, the Pyramids, and some old cave paintings in Europe and Asia surviving a world wide flood if you ever get past the geology issues.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:30 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 194 of 1257 (788163)
07-26-2016 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Faith
07-26-2016 2:45 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Usually people are trying to prove there IS loose dirt between layers.

I have not seen anyone here claim that to be the case. Instead people have been pointed out that strata lithification occurs from the lower layers up, so that any lower layers would turn to rock before the upper layers. In addition people have pointed out that your picture of continent wide, uniformly straight layers is bogus.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 2:45 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 304 of 1257 (788707)
08-03-2016 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Faith
08-03-2016 9:01 PM


Re: Tracks in the strata
They probably floated to their burial place on the rising water. abe: Picture a lot of dinosaur corpses floating in the water along with a lot of dinosaur eggs in nests.

That global flood was awesomely gentle...

Carved the grand canyon in less than a year you say?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 08-03-2016 9:01 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Faith, posted 08-04-2016 9:09 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 365 of 1257 (788837)
08-05-2016 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
08-05-2016 12:42 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Well, you have that part of the fairytale down pat, the weird idea that any surface can somehow be eroded and compacted down to flatness and become a rock like those in the strata of the Geo Column.

Where is your argument?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 08-05-2016 12:42 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 437 of 1257 (789075)
08-10-2016 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 436 by Faith
08-10-2016 11:25 AM


Re: let's take Baby steps... to Nowhere
As you are describing it this all happens way too slowly for the creatures to be buried and fossilized. They'd have been first mangled by scavengers and then just rotted away to dust in such a time frame.

Which is exactly what happens in the case of the vast majority of land creatures. Very few of them are fossilized. You act is though this lack of huge numbers of fossilized terrestial animals is not something actually observed.

One thing the Flood has over ALL the scenarios you can come up with is that it would have provided the PERFECT conditions for fossilization: rapid burial and compaction.

Something which was not observed. And beyond that, as has been repeatedly commented on, is that the Flood cannot explain any of the details of what was fossilized.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by Faith, posted 08-10-2016 11:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 469 of 1257 (789117)
08-10-2016 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by NosyNed
08-10-2016 7:50 PM


Re: Just the same as today.
But isn't Faith here arguing that what science says is impossible? That is, not supporting the bible but rather saying it is right if science's idea can't work.

That was the original intent of the thread, but Faith gave up on making those kinds of arguments quite awhile back. Now her participation has been reduced to just asserting that science is wrong rather than impossible and repeatedly not understanding attempts to explain how animals live during the sediment accumulation process. I think every person here has made an attempt to explain that. Your own post on the topic is at least as clear as everyone else's. Let's see what Faith makes of it.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : Grammar


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by NosyNed, posted 08-10-2016 7:50 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by Coyote, posted 08-10-2016 10:42 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 481 of 1257 (789146)
08-11-2016 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 480 by Faith
08-11-2016 9:50 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
I suggest you take it back because you neither understand the argument I'm making and how it would destroy the current theory, nor what the possible alternatives would be that you claim would exist.

As a matter of logic, disproving one theory does not prove another theory. So that much of your claim is clearly BS.

I suggest you take it back because you neither understand the argument I'm making

Same stuff, different day.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 9:50 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 10:15 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 487 of 1257 (789152)
08-11-2016 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 482 by Faith
08-11-2016 10:15 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
If the current theory is discredited in a particular way to a particular degree there may be only the Flood left as the reasonable alternative and no general assertion can disprove that.

Wrong, Faith. If you can make stuff up, so can I or anyone else. I stand by my statement that disproving one theory does not prove another one. There are always more alternatives.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 10:15 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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