Summations Only

Sorry Faith but once again you are simply wrong. No one doubts that you are basing your position on your faith but faith and fact are not the same thing. We all fully understand that but the reality is that not only has no clear contradiction ever been found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas; every line of research in every field, physics, archeology, paleontology, chemistry, geology, biology, genetics and cultural history has shown that neither of the Biblical Flood stories ever happened.Those are not a matter of opinion but rather of fact.When the rocks contradict the book, believe the rocks. When physics contradicts the book, believe physics. When archeology contradicts the book, believe the archeology. When the evidence contradicts the book, believe the evidence.

The big error in your position (other than it being factually wrong) is that even if an unexplained contradiction was found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas it would not add any support for the concept of some Biblical Flood having really happened.What is needed is not refutation of the current theory but rather actual support for the existence of some Biblical Flood and unfortunately no one has ever been able to find any evidence such an event ever happened.Worse, no one has ever even been able to present a Flood model. method, mechanism, process, procedure or thingamabob that might begin to explain any, much less all, of the evidence that is currently explained fully by long periods of time and a continuation of the forces, evolution, chemistry, biology, physics and geology we see in going on today.

Only one of the positions is dogma Faith and the other is very different from dogma, it is a willingness to base decisions on actual evidence and to change decisions when the evidence demands.You really need to learn some basics.

Fortunately Faith, the subject of ancient shorelines has been studied extensively over the last few hundred years and so there is a whole wealth of evidence, facts and knowledge on the subject.To begin learning just Google "ancient shorelines".Edited by jar, : fix link and appalin spallin

Maybe, but it is certain that there is no support for either a Young Earth or any magic flood there.

But wait, there's more ...what we do find is not just ancient shorelines but multiple sequential shorelines where water levels rose and retreated and rose yet again.It is the same pattern of sequential layers found in varves and ice cores and tree rings and geological layers; indications that could never be produced by any single event.

Now that is a really stupid comment.Are there not shorelines now?

It was a pretty simple question Faith. Are there shorelines today?Supposedly the flood you say happened took one year and was universal. That would be one constantly higher shoreline everywhere on Earth and then almost immediately one receding shoreline.But once again, reality says "That never happened." There is not only no such evidence but rather there are examples all over the world of sequential shorelines, that bugaboo of Creationism recurring feature.The is no way your magic flood can produce recurring sequences of shorelines of varves or limestone layers or any of the other things found in the real world.

Utter nonsense Faith. Just plain silly.If you open your eyes you can see exactly what was going on; it is exactly the same thing that is going on today.Of course the layer below did not have to be lithified before the next layer was deposited, just like today, but sometimes it was, also just like today. Where new material is deposited on much older lithified material a new unconformity is being created. We can see such unconformities being created today where older layers are exposed and being covered by new layers of material.A great example is the soil being farmed in the Appalachians. There old old material, the roots of great mountain ranges that have weathered and eroded down to the stubs that still exist today are being covered by new material that in turn someday may also get lithified. When that happens the geologists of that far in the future time will find lithified rock from the Ordovician time period covered by lithified rock from the Cenozoic Era. They will note that there is a gap of about 500 million years between the two layers. That really varies Faith. In most cases there is not much time between layers getting put down but as shown in the paragraphs above, there can also be millions of years. That does not mean the surface sat untouched for those millions of years but rather just the opposite. As shown in the example of the Appalachians what happened is that for millions of years the layer first raised up and then was weathered down; tall mountains getting worn down to minor stubs.That process is what creates the unconformities and why they are different than the norm. In most cases what is living is not living on the lithified surface except as noted above. They are living on surfaces just like those we see today. The conclusive evidence for that is the stuff that died and got buried in material that was not yet lithified. If the surface had already been lithified the things like leaves and bones and tree trunks and spores and seed cones and tracks and insects and scales could not get inside the rock but would just be on the rock.Again, we are all living on a surface that rests on some lithified layers today but the surface we live on is not yet lithified. And the landscapes in the past also lived on surfaces that were above some lithified layers but not yet lithified themselves.

The flood, if it had actually happened, would leave a very distinctive shoreline pattern all over the world.There would be one incursion and one recession event with a nearly unordered jumble of materials between the two. The two boundaries would be very close together made from unlithified materials and the only ordering seen would be more massive particles on the bottom graded uniformally to the finest particles on the top. All things that had been living would be jumbled together with no fossils at all.The Biblical Floods never happened which is a universal fact known by all scientists who have investigated for the last several hundred years and that continues to be supported by all evidence from every field of scientific inquiry and every technological development.

Which is almost always the case. Time is continuous and the transitions go on constantly. It is the sudden but infrequent changes that can allow more precise absolute dating, things like a major unconformity or major die off or a layer that can be attributed to a known event (layers from a given eruption, meteor strikes) that serve as place markers throughout the history. But index fossils can point us to broad chapters (below the first vertebrate fossils, above the K-T boundary, before flowers or grass) regardless of the specific makeup of the rock at that given point.I tried to point this out to Faith in Message 223 but it seems she has decided not to even read many posting.

{It's pretty hard to tell what is and isn't on topic here, but the olive tree theme is a major part of another currently active topic. I'm declaring it "OFF-TOPIC" here. - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide message and add admin comment.

Actually, it's how one of the stories puts it. Remember there is not one flood myth but two flood myths with additional commentary added by some unknown redactor or redactors.But what the Bible says or does not say is totally irrelevant to this thread just as the flood is totally irrelevant to this thread.Your problem is that all of the evidence simply shows conclusively that what is seen is a series of landscapes, each made up of many different types of rock, each filled with a succession of different types of living organisms and landscapes.You need to produce a model that can compete with the current model of change over time and so far neither you or anyone else has been able to present anything worth more than a chuckle.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

And of course we have no originals of anything found in any Bible from any Canon.So we have no idea what the originals said.And the Bible and bible stories are still totally irrelevant in this topic.

Considering all the evidence of a Biblical flood, more like kiddies stomping in a puddle.