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Author Topic:   Assumptions involved in scientific dating
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 222 (789145)
08-11-2016 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Coyote
08-11-2016 9:23 AM


I'm still waiting for ICANT or some other creationist to enlighten us on which assumptions they are having problems with.
I highly doubt they are coming. Neither ICANT nor Faith have ever insisted on any particular answer to radiometric. ICANT is not YEC anyway and in general has no opposition to old ages. He does have some goofy beliefs about the earth being much smaller during the time of the flood...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Coyote, posted 08-11-2016 9:23 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2017 1:30 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 58 of 222 (799930)
02-17-2017 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Pressie
02-17-2017 4:36 AM


Re: Bump (again) for creationist input
This guy is stupid. That's not an ASSUMPTION.
quote:
To determine the origin of something, we must refer to eye-witness accounts (aka historical evidence) because science is limited on what it can determine.
That's right. No point in running DNA tests to determine paternity. We must refer only to eye-witness accounts of penis depositing sperm into vagina.
Yeah, quite stupid.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Pressie, posted 02-17-2017 4:36 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Pressie, posted 02-20-2017 6:34 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 151 of 222 (827442)
01-25-2018 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by jar
01-24-2018 8:57 AM


Re: his really stupid "Questions"
It might be worthwhile also pointing out that the amount of 14C produced has absolutely no significance when looking at 14C decay.
The production rate is important because we cannot do dating without establishing that the C14/C12 ratio was when the object died or otherwise stop exchanging carbon with the atmosphere. You cannot just ignore the production rate and the production history for that matter.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by jar, posted 01-24-2018 8:57 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Pressie, posted 01-25-2018 5:50 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 153 by jar, posted 01-25-2018 6:40 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 155 of 222 (827451)
01-25-2018 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by jar
01-25-2018 6:40 AM


Re: his really stupid "Questions"
Not really. Unless the crazy electric universe folk can show that their fields selectively effect 14C and 12C differently the ratios would still be the same
The effect is well documented, known, and compensated for. It's been discussed here on any number of occasions.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 01-25-2018 6:40 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 222 (827565)
01-27-2018 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by DOCJ
01-27-2018 10:58 PM


Re: Questions
The EU, Answers in Genesis, Reasons to Believe, and other organizations have scientist working for them.
"Scientist" is a title. Not everything a scientist does is science. If what someone is "doing" is not a process of investigation by testing hypotheses based on observation and data collecting, and then rejecting, modifying, or correcting those hypotheses in a manner in which their work is reviewable by other scientists, then they are not doing science.
If you want to point to specific work done by those organizations, then let's discuss it. But nobody is going to accept your claim that a scientist, who may not even be working in his field of expertise, is doing science because of their title. Show us the work.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by DOCJ, posted 01-27-2018 10:58 PM DOCJ has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by DOCJ, posted 01-27-2018 11:41 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 164 of 222 (827569)
01-28-2018 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by DOCJ
01-27-2018 11:41 PM


Re: Questions
Halton Arp showed red shift does not point to Inflation, distance, etc. This does effect dating.
I am familiar with Arp's work. Yes, Arp is a scientist and did scientific work. But Arp's work is not the be all and end all. His results were peer-reviewed, his analysis debunked and his results discarded long ago.
So no, Arp hasn't shown what you claim. You are citing Arps's interpretation of his data but the more recent data shows clearly that Arp was wrong. If you'd like to discuss this in a fuller fashion, I'm game. But as of 2007 or so, there is no credible evidence for quantized red shifts and no indication that known large red shift values are associated with nearby objects.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by DOCJ, posted 01-27-2018 11:41 PM DOCJ has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by DOCJ, posted 01-28-2018 12:18 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 222 (827593)
01-28-2018 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by DOCJ
01-28-2018 12:18 AM


Re: Questions
He was not debunked. He was debated. And it depends on who you listen to as to whether or not he is supported. Probability is not assigned by popular support.
And neither is the truth established by you claiming that someone is right and ignoring the rebuttals in the literature. Not debates, actual analysis of the mistakes Arp makes. Anytime you want to have a real discussion, let me know by actually posting the details of Arp's claims.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by DOCJ, posted 01-28-2018 12:18 AM DOCJ has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 212 of 222 (827747)
01-31-2018 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Pressie
01-31-2018 6:15 AM


Re: Questions
Another Pb isotope, Pb6+
That is an ionic state and not an isotopic state. Any isotope of lead might be in that state.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Pressie, posted 01-31-2018 6:15 AM Pressie has not replied

  
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