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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 61 of 203 (789450)
08-15-2016 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Greatest I am
08-14-2016 10:09 AM


Re: Growing pains
About formatting: I never change anyone's words when I correct your sloppy formatting. Please learn how to format and stop changing peoples words around.
Regards
Phat
Edited by Phat, : clarification

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 10:09 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Asgara, posted 08-15-2016 12:22 AM Phat has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2416 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 62 of 203 (789451)
08-15-2016 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
08-15-2016 12:11 AM


Re: Growing pains
Phat doesn't have that power. AdminPhat would be abusing his power.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 08-15-2016 12:11 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1558 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 63 of 203 (789455)
08-15-2016 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by DrJones*
08-14-2016 11:07 PM


Re: Growing pains
You know what? I don't think God ordered those babies killed. This has come up before and I may look it up later, but as I recall that particular incident is usually wrongly attributed to God, when it was the Israelites themselves who were looking for vengeance against the Babylonians, who had done that to the Israelites. It was one of those cases where they acted on their own and God didn't command it.
There were incidents where God did order the slaughter of a whole people though. He always gives warnings and time to repent, however, and if the babies' parents didn't repent the babies wouldn't have either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by DrJones*, posted 08-14-2016 11:07 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 64 of 203 (789458)
08-15-2016 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Asgara
08-15-2016 12:22 AM


Re: Growing pains
Thank you for correcting me, Ms.Asgara. These pesky people who want to be God sometimes annoy me and I come across acting like God myself!
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Asgara, posted 08-15-2016 12:22 AM Asgara has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 65 of 203 (789466)
08-15-2016 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Greatest I am
08-14-2016 9:26 AM


Re: Universalist Gnostic Christian church
GIA writes:
AdminPhat
"There is only One God."
To each of us, yes, but not a supernatural one. If you have written the laws of god in your heart as Jesus promoted, then that god is you.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If you think the Christian god is the one god, then you should recognize the immoral nature of his immoral tenets. We cannot prove his existence but I can prove him to be quite immoral so pick his moral tenets and lets have at it.
"Lets say that you were that one voice. What do you propose to change the beliefs of many from?"
The whole world has been harmed by belief in the supernatural gods mostly because the mainstream religions grew themselves by war and all those religions are really good at is creating homophobic and misogynous people.
"Again...change it to what?"
The main change I would like to see is a return to what the more intelligent ancients though of god. This scholar explains it well.
What is God? - Big Think
"Do you really expect people to suddenly agree on anything?"
NO. That is why I try to entice people to debate.
Regards
DL
This post is a perfect example of why your formatting is unreadable and confuses people who read this topic. First off, as AdminPhat I did not say what you quoted in that context. As a Christian who believes that there is One God, I will most assuredly say that there is and that you are not He.
If you want to continue being promoted at EvC Forum, you would be wise to adopt proper formatting techniques so that the readers of your posts are not confused.
I will reformat your post as I understand it, leaving no words out.
quote:
AdminPhat writes:
"There is only One God."
To each of us, yes, but not a supernatural one. If you have written the laws of god in your heart as Jesus promoted, then that god is you.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If you think the Christian god is the one god, then you should recognize the immoral nature of his immoral tenets. We cannot prove his existence but I can prove him to be quite immoral so pick his moral tenets and lets have at it.
Lets say that you were that one voice. What do you propose to change the beliefs of many from?
The whole world has been harmed by belief in the supernatural gods mostly because the mainstream religions grew themselves by war and all those religions are really good at is creating homophobic and misogynous people.
Again...change it to what?
The main change I would like to see is a return to what the more intelligent ancients though of god. This scholar explains it well.
What Is God?
Do you really expect people to suddenly agree on anything?
NO. That is why I try to entice people to debate.
Regards
DL
If you need to see how the formatting was done, press the peek button. It helps to clarify posts in their proper context and to leave other readers content unchanged. Otherwise viewers may get an incorrect idea of the thrust of the debate.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2016 9:26 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 12:54 PM Phat has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2302
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 66 of 203 (789468)
08-15-2016 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
08-15-2016 12:56 AM


Re: Growing pains
He always gives warnings and time to repent, however, and if the babies' parents didn't repent the babies wouldn't have either.
Why wouldn't they?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

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Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member (Idle past 158 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 67 of 203 (789469)
08-15-2016 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by DrJones*
08-15-2016 10:27 AM


Re: Growing pains
DrJones* writes:
Faith writes:
He always gives warnings and time to repent, however, and if the babies' parents didn't repent the babies wouldn't have either.
Why wouldn't they?
Their hearts were hardened.

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 Message 66 by DrJones*, posted 08-15-2016 10:27 AM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 68 of 203 (789470)
08-15-2016 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Stile
08-15-2016 10:45 AM


Re: Growing pains
Stile writes:
DrJones* writes:
Faith writes:
He always gives warnings and time to repent, however, and if the babies' parents didn't repent the babies wouldn't have either.
Why wouldn't they?
Their hearts were hardened.
And we know from Exodus that God hardens hearts even when the individual wants a soft heart.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

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Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 08-15-2016 12:41 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 69 of 203 (789477)
08-15-2016 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jar
08-15-2016 10:50 AM


Re: Growing pains
jar writes:
And we know from Exodus that God hardens hearts even when the individual wants a soft heart.
In todays modern era, do you believe that God can or does harden hearts?
Why would God do something that we didnt want Him to do? Hmmmm good question.
*ponder ponder*

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 10:50 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 08-15-2016 12:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 71 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 12:49 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 526 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 70 of 203 (789478)
08-15-2016 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
08-15-2016 12:41 PM


Re: Growing pains
Phat writes:
Why would God do something that we didnt want Him to do?
God is an excuse for everything we don't like - flood, famine, etc. Religion uses convoluted logic to explain why God's bad deeds are good for us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 08-15-2016 12:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 71 of 203 (789479)
08-15-2016 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
08-15-2016 12:41 PM


Re: Growing pains
Phat writes:
In todays modern era, do you believe that God can or does harden hearts?
Why would God do something that we didnt want Him to do? Hmmmm good question.
*ponder ponder*
I know that the Bible says God did that and that it depends on which God we create.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 08-15-2016 12:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 08-15-2016 5:40 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 72 of 203 (789497)
08-15-2016 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
08-15-2016 12:49 PM


Re: Growing pains
jar writes:
I know that the Bible says God did that and that it depends on which God we create.
If the Bible is simply made up of Gods that we create, how does this fact strengthen or weaken your personal belief in GOD?(You know...the One who created and imagined us long before we were even capable of soiling our diapers...much less making Him up?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 12:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 08-15-2016 6:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 73 of 203 (789499)
08-15-2016 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
08-15-2016 5:40 PM


Re: Growing pains
Phat writes:
If the Bible is simply made up of Gods that we create, how does this fact strengthen or weaken your personal belief in GOD?(You know...the One who created and imagined us long before we were even capable of soiling our diapers...much less making Him up?
Why would it have any effect? Belief is not a matter of evidence but rather a life choice.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

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 Message 74 by Parasomnium, posted 08-16-2016 6:04 AM jar has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2225
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 74 of 203 (789513)
08-16-2016 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by jar
08-15-2016 6:03 PM


Re: Growing pains
jar writes:
Belief is not a matter of evidence but rather a life choice.
This is what I've always thought of as a very strange idea. I think what you believe is very much a matter of evidence, or it should be, at least. Let me illustrate this with an example.
Suppose you are in a room with Alice, Bob and Charlie. You and Charlie leave the room, close the door behind you, and both sit down on a bench opposite the door. Then both of you see Bob leaving the room. Charlie then asks you how many people you believe are in the room, and you say "two". Bemused, Charlie says "How can you believe that, you have seen Bob leaving the room, haven't you?" You say "Yes, but I choose to believe there are two people in the room." Charlie finds this very strange, and rightly so. He believes there is one person in the room, based on the evidence he saw.
He is wrong though, because what he doesn't know is that Alice left the room through the window. Still, his belief is more rational than yours because it is based on the evidence available to him, and yours is an irrational choice.
How can you choose what to believe? I don't think you can. I think that people who say "I choose to believe X is true" are merely expressing the wish they have that X is true. Sometimes people even sort of admit that, by saying that it makes them feel better if they "believe" X is true. What they should realize is that they are using the wrong verb.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 75 of 203 (789515)
08-16-2016 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Parasomnium
08-16-2016 6:04 AM


Re: Growing pains
Parasomnium writes:
This is what I've always thought of as a very strange idea. I think what you believe is very much a matter of evidence, or it should be, at least.
Language is wonderful, isn't it. Words can have so many different meanings.
Belief is one such example.
I use belief to mean something which may well be true but where I cannot be certain. In your example I would answer by saying I know how many people are in the room and explain the reasoning and evidence for that conclusion.
I believe there is a GOD but also understand that at least as long as I am alive there is no way I can know that there is a GOD. I understand that even after I die I may well not know the answer.
AbE:
Also please understand, I do not claim or assert or require or even believe that my beliefs are reasonable, rational or logical.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

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