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Author Topic:   Why did we stop inventing gods?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 106 of 203 (789558)
08-16-2016 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:27 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat
"Jobs assets and family were restored.."
Can the pain of losing a child be erased by having another child?
If you think so then you do not know anything about love.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 1:27 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 3:36 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 107 of 203 (789559)
08-16-2016 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:30 PM


Re: Is God A Meanie?
Phat
"First of all, I do not see God as genocidal."
If you do not see Noah's flood as a genocide then nothing you say is credible.
Regards
DL

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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 382 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 108 of 203 (789560)
08-16-2016 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:30 PM


Re: Is God A Meanie?
[qs]Phat
I am willfully obedient, but I have a free will.
Not if you do so to a lord and master.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 109 of 203 (789562)
08-16-2016 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
08-16-2016 11:18 AM


Re: testable versus untestable.
People who believe in aliens usually think they have empirical evidence for them.
I think you're talking about people who think they've been visited by aliens. I was talking about there being aliens "out there", not ones living among us.
And it that case, I stand by my claim: I believe that there are aliens out there and I have no empirical evidence that it is true.
That is what I mean by a belief. I don't mean that I don't have reasons though.
Again, I'd guess you have some kind of evidence for your belief in them, but probably dismiss it because it isn't what you think of as "empirical" evidence.
No, I do not have some kind of evidence that aliens are out there, empirical or otherwise.
By which I suppose you mean SHARABLE observation or experience. Like replicable science experiments anyone can do.
I would prefer the term VERIFIABLE, through the senses.
Of course there's always witness evidence and in fact that's probably the biggest category of evidence any of us has for anything we believe. Somebody else observed or experienced something and we either believe them or we don't.
Meh, witness evidence sucks for accepting things, or concluding things, or for concurrence. But yes, it can be a source of what I call belief.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Parasomnium, posted 08-16-2016 4:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18429
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 110 of 203 (789567)
08-16-2016 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Greatest I am
08-16-2016 1:33 PM


Human Responsibility vs Gods Responsibility
GIA writes:
My question on this is, --- your god created your nature. Why did he put that addictive nature in you knowing that you could not resist following your god given nature?
Seems like a set up to me.
God created us as freewilled creatures with autonomous natures. We were not born addicted---though some may argue we were born addicted to sin.
Phat writes:
Jobs assets and family were restored...
GIA writes:
Can the pain of losing a child be erased by having another child?
No. Job suffered pain. God did not directly cause that pain though by allowing satan to do it,critics could argue that God was responsible.
So again the question: If God could prevent pain and suffering in our lives, why does He not?
I maintain that reality is. There are days we will experience pain. There are days we will suffer.
And about Noahs flood....what does the evidence show us concerning such an event? Can we hold God responsible for a story in a book that was written by humans? Seems to me if anything it is humans whom we should indict.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2016 1:33 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Greatest I am, posted 09-07-2016 2:05 PM Phat has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2225
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 111 of 203 (789568)
08-16-2016 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by New Cat's Eye
08-16-2016 2:30 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Cat Sci writes:
No, I do not have some kind of evidence that aliens are out there, empirical or otherwise.
But I think you do. It may not be conclusive but there is supportive empirical evidence that aliens are probable. The evidence consists of 1) the fact that there is life in the universe (with absolute proof of it here on earth), and 2) there not being any compelling reason to assume that life on earth is special or unique. Combine these two and you have reason to believe that aliens may exist. You do not know for certain but it is a reasonable belief, based on some solid evidence.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-16-2016 2:30 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 203 (789569)
08-16-2016 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Parasomnium
08-16-2016 4:05 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
But I think you do. It may not be conclusive but there is supportive empirical evidence that aliens are probable. The evidence consists of 1) the fact that there is life in the universe (with absolute proof of it here on earth), and 2) there not being any compelling reason to assume that life on earth is special or unique. Combine these two and you have reason to believe that aliens may exist.
I don't consider evidence that they are probable or may exist to be evidence that they do exist.
But yes, there are reasons to believe it. Still though, no evidence.
As I was saying, if I had evidence for it then I'd stop calling it a belief.
I'd accept that aliens are out there, but I can't do that, can I?

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18429
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 113 of 203 (789573)
08-16-2016 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Tangle
08-16-2016 12:57 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Tangle writes:
I don't want anyone dicking with my head except me.

You are delightfully honest.
Tangle writes:
There's absolutely nothing new to be found in the bible. It's been exactly the same for 2,000 years. I studied it for years and believed in it the same way you do now. It was my world view - been there, done that.
See...I find new wisdom nearly every day. Reading it is one thing. Applying it is another.
Tangle writes:
The mistake that you and your chums continually make is to assume that by seemingly being clever, other people can know something they don't about this god thing. No-one, that's no-one, has any special knowledge of god; not those on my side - Dawkins, Hawking etc or those on yours - the pope and that charleton favourite of GDR's, C S Lewis. They're all as clueless as you and I.
Perhaps they dont have special knowledge, but I would argue that many get insights that you or I might not yet understand. What you and your chums fail o realize is that God is living and active...as is the Word. Of course, you insist on evidence, as if the evidence isnt evident already. I can't convince you...thats for sure.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 08-16-2016 12:57 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 08-16-2016 6:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9537
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 114 of 203 (789578)
08-16-2016 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
08-16-2016 5:56 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat writes:
Applying it is another.
You're head is stuffed full of misconceptions Phat. If you believe it, you apply it. There's no choice. Are you suggesting that when I believed it, I didn't? If so why?
Perhaps they dont have special knowledge, but I would argue that many get insights that you or I might not yet understand.
You can't argue that can you? All you can do is assert it and hope. You have absolutely nothing else.
And of course, you've accidentally asserted that those that think that the whole thing is a pile of horseshit also have special knowledge.
What you and your chums fail o realize is that God is living and active...as is the Word.
Well yes, obviously. 'Cos if he was living and active it's likely we'd all notice, not just those that, well, best left unsaid.
Of course, you insist on evidence, as if the evidence isnt evident already. I can't convince you...thats for sure.
But if the evidence was evident you wouldn't have to convince me would you? You know, it's not like I'm Faith and impervious to evidence. I live and breathe evidence, I will change my mind. I don't have a book that makes sure that I can't.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 08-16-2016 5:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 08-17-2016 12:39 PM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 520 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 115 of 203 (789635)
08-17-2016 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
08-16-2016 1:27 PM


Re: testable versus untestable.
Phat writes:
How did he become rich again?
Do you think he expected to become rich again?

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18429
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 116 of 203 (789642)
08-17-2016 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Tangle
08-16-2016 6:19 PM


Conning Vince
Tangle writes:
If you believe it, you apply it. There's no choice. Are you suggesting that when I believed it, I didn't?
You likely saw no evidence. Being a man of reason...logic reason and reality were something tangible to you...so you changed your worldview.
I have seen subjective evidence of the supernatural and I have also witnessed dramatic transformations in other peoples lives. People may claim it happens to everyone--not just believers---but I have yet to see it outside of my box.
Tangle writes:
All you can do is assert it and hope. You have absolutely nothing else.
Again, yes I do. I have had personal experience. You may claim that you did also, but I doubt it. Not at the level I had, at any rate.
Tangle writes:
if the evidence was evident you wouldn't have to convince me would you?
You have already convinced yourself that God does not exist, so I would have to unconvince you...which it is doubtful I can do.
Tangle writes:
I live and breathe evidence, I will change my mind. I don't have a book that makes sure that I can't.
Thats good to hear. We will take this one day at a time. Until then, I hope that you have a good life.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Tangle, posted 08-16-2016 6:19 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9537
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 117 of 203 (789656)
08-17-2016 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
08-17-2016 12:39 PM


Re: Conning Vince
Phat writes:
You likely saw no evidence. Being a man of reason...logic reason and reality were something tangible to you...so you changed your worldview.
No Phat, no. I fully believed just like you - then I didn't. Please don't overthink this.
Again, yes I do. I have had personal experience. You may claim that you did also, but I doubt it. Not at the level I had, at any rate.
You have no idea what I felt, nor I you, so you'd be advised not to make assumptions.
Secondly, i've worked with seriously mentally ill people and am very aware of what people are capable of experiencing in their minds. I'm not saying that you or anyone else is mentally ill, I'm making the point that our minds are capable of fooling us all the time. If you've ever studied anything about what our mind can do, you'll know that it can't be trusted. The vast majority of its work is to prevent 'us' - our conscious selves - from getting in its way.
You have already convinced yourself that God does not exist, so I would have to unconvince you...which it is doubtful I can do.
Of course you can - just provide the evidence. Real eveidence. Evidence of what is going on in your or anyone else's head is not useful, I have met three Jesus's, one Hitler and one Prince of Wales. We can very easily fool ourselves in far less dramatic matters.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 08-17-2016 12:39 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2496
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 118 of 203 (789803)
08-19-2016 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
08-15-2016 12:56 AM


Re: Growing pains
quote:
There were incidents where God did order the slaughter of a whole people though. He always gives warnings and time to repent, however, and if the babies' parents didn't repent the babies wouldn't have either.
I find it very ironic that you would say that about the Canaanites. Look at this link for biblical quotes showing who built the Temple and the Holy of Holies. The Canaanites!
http://phoenicia.org/temple.html
I won't quote from those texts but they are interesting indeed.
However,here is some of the Biblical text showing where they were supposed to be killed and dispossessed.
quote:
Joshua 13
1Now Joshua was old, advanced in years. And the Lord said to him: You are old, advanced in years, and there remains very much land yet to be possessed. 2This is the land that yet remains: all the territory of the Philistines and all that of the Geshurites, 3from Sihor, which is east of Egypt, as far as the border of Ekron northward (which is counted as Canaanite); the five lords of the Philistinesthe Gazites, the Ashdodites, the Ashkelonites, the Gittites, and the Ekronites; also the Avites; 4from the south, all the land of the Canaanites, and Mearah that belongs to the Sidonians as far as Aphek, to the border of the Amorites; 5the land of the Gebalites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrise, from Baal Gad below Mount Hermon as far as the entrance to Hamath; 6all the inhabitants of the mountains from Lebanon as far as the Brook Misrephoth, and all the Sidoniansthem I will drive out from before the children of Israel; only divide it by lot to Israel as an inheritance, as I have commanded you. 7Now therefore, divide this land as an inheritance to the nine tribes and half the tribe of Manasseh.
Joshua 17
10Southward it was Ephraim’s, northward it was Manasseh’s, and the sea was its border. Manasseh’s territory was adjoining Asher on the north and Issachar on the east. 11And in Issachar and in Asher, Manasseh had Beth Shean and its towns, Ibleam and its towns, the inhabitants of Dor and its towns, the inhabitants of En Dor and its towns, the inhabitants of Taanach and its towns, and the inhabitants of Megiddo and its townsthree hilly regions. 12Yet the children of Manasseh could not drive out the inhabitants of those cities, but the Canaanites were determined to dwell in that land. 13And it happened, when the children of Israel grew strong, that they put the Canaanites to forced labor, but did not utterly drive them out.
But they remained for ever it seems. They were specifically given the towns according to Kings.
quote:
1 Kings 9
10 At the end of twenty years, during which Solomon built these two buildingsthe temple of the Lord and the royal palace 11 King Solomon gave twenty towns in Galilee to Hiram king of Tyre, because Hiram had supplied him with all the cedar and juniper and gold he wanted. 12 But when Hiram went from Tyre to see the towns that Solomon had given him, he was not pleased with them. 13 What kind of towns are these you have given me, my brother? he asked. And he called them the Land of Kabul,a name they have to this day. 14 Now Hiram had sent to the king 120 talents of gold.
15 Here is the account of the forced labor King Solomon conscripted to build the Lord’s temple, his own palace, the terraces, the wall of Jerusalem, and Hazor, Megiddo and Gezer. 16 (Pharaoh king of Egypt had attacked and captured Gezer. He had set it on fire. He killed its Canaanite inhabitants and then gave it as a wedding gift to his daughter, Solomon’s wife. 17 And Solomon rebuilt Gezer.) He built up Lower Beth Horon, 18 Baalath, and Tadmor in the desert, within his land, 19 as well as all his store cities and the towns for his chariots and for his horseswhatever he desired to build in Jerusalem, in Lebanon and throughout all the territory he ruled.
20 There were still people left from the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites (these peoples were not Israelites). 21 Solomon conscripted the descendants of all these peoples remaining in the landwhom the Israelites could not exterminateto serve as slave labor, as it is to this day. 22 But Solomon did not make slaves of any of the Israelites; they were his fighting men, his government officials, his officers, his captains, and the commanders of his chariots and charioteers. 23 They were also the chief officials in charge of Solomon’s projects550 officials supervising those who did the work.
The Sidonians were allies and friends during the time of David.
quote:
2 Samuel 5
New International Version (NIV)
David Becomes King Over Israel
5 All the tribes of Israel came to David at Hebron and said, We are your own flesh and blood. 2 In the past, while Saul was king over us, you were the one who led Israel on their military campaigns. And the Lord said to you, ‘You will shepherd my people Israel, and you will become their ruler.’
3 When all the elders of Israel had come to King David at Hebron, the king made a covenant with them at Hebron before the Lord, and they anointed David king over Israel.
4 David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years. 5 In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah thirty-three years.
David Conquers Jerusalem
6 The king and his men marched to Jerusalem to attack the Jebusites, who lived there. The Jebusites said to David, You will not get in here; even the blind and the lame can ward you off. They thought, David cannot get in here. 7 Nevertheless, David captured the fortress of Zionwhich is the City of David.
8 On that day David had said, Anyone who conquers the Jebusites will have to use the water shaft to reach those ‘lame and blind’ who are David’s enemies. That is why they say, The ‘blind and lame’ will not enter the palace.
9 David then took up residence in the fortress and called it the City of David. He built up the area around it, from the terraces inward. 10 And he became more and more powerful, because the Lord God Almighty was with him.
11 Now Hiram king of Tyre sent envoys to David, along with cedar logs and carpenters and stonemasons, and they built a palace for David.
The Canaanites and Israelites were essentially a united people during the Monarchy period.
This is an interesting recent story out of the land of Israel. (fairly long)
quote:
Did the Phoenicians Even Exist?
Everybody in the Mediterranean around 3,000 years ago hated and envied these masters of seafaring, but who exactly were these Phoenicians?
Philippe Bohstrom | 
Jul 28, 2016 8:19 PM
....
The Old Testament never actually mentions Phoenicians. The only reference to that name is in ancient Greek writings, and they were referring to merchants living in cities along the coast of modern-day Lebanon.
In other words, the "Phoenicians" mentioned by the ancient Greeks were part of what the biblical authors called "Canaanites", in terms of archaeology, religion and language. There was not much setting them apart from other Semitic cultures.
....
Back in the Holy Land, the city-state of Tyre was said to have helped make King Solomon rich and to construct a navy (Ezekiel 27). These Tyrians were among the Phoenicians of whom the Greek were so sour. This era, around the 10th century BCE or so we are told in the bible, was the only period in which the "united kingdoms" of David and Solomon actually flourished, if they existed at all, or to what degree, a matter of some debate.
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/1.733940
The Canaanites became Jewish and then Christian and to this day there are those who identify with their ancestors.
quote:
Lebanon
Arab 95%, Armenian 4%, other 1%
note: many Christian Lebanese do not identify themselves as Arab but rather as descendents of the ancient Canaanites and prefer to be called Phoenicians
https://www.cia.gov/...s/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html
(see)
Error 500 - Internal Server Error
They seemed to have become followers of the religion you prefer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 08-15-2016 12:56 AM Faith has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2496
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 119 of 203 (789804)
08-19-2016 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
08-14-2016 4:01 PM


When does Faith ask "WHY" it is that Christians were super intolerant without excuses
Here is her commentary on the issue of Christians killing others. GIA said that gnostics (which he should know that the vast majority of "gnostics" were Manicheans and they just adored Jesus, but that is another issue) were killed after the Roman Empire became Christian.
quote:
[Faith]
The Catholic Church is not Christian, its murders were/are the work of Satan, its Inquisitions, its Crusades, the lot (the Inquisition is continuing in some third world Catholic countries today, hidden from view of course). Not that there aren't true Christians who are Catholics, I'm talking about the Institution, the papacy, the power structure, all the work of the devil.
ABE: The RCC is really the continuation of the Roman Empire that threw the early Christians to the lions. They transformed all Rome's pagan gods into Christian "saints" and kept all the pagan rituals and superstitions, just tacked on some of the Christian gospel here and there to confuse everybody.
Always accept the Catholic theology up till when Faith? The Byzantine Empire (East Roman Empire that is called "Byzantine Empire" after 476 A.D.)killed Christians in large numbers.
Consider this historical fact (aside from the silent and ignored side issue that Manicheans likely made up the bulk of the "Christian" majority in Iraq in the 7th century) of tolerance among the Persian Empire (that started around 224 A.D.) which stretched east of the Roman/Byzantine Empire all the way to India and China. Then I want to ask you a question.
quote:
A History of the Muslim World to 1405: The Making of a Civilization
By Vernon O Egger
Routledge; 1 edition (June 30, 2016)
In Iraq. the westernmost territory of the Sasanian Empire, Zoroastrianism was a minority religion ...The Sasanian policy of granting refuge to non-Orthadox Christians from Byzantine territories affected the demography of the empire. So many Christians emigrated to Iraq that by the early seventh century Christians may have formed the largest single religious community in Iraq. Many Nestorian merchants based in Iraq made their way along the trading routes to China and the Indian Ocean basin, establishing Nestorian communities in Central Asia and India. By the late sixth century, even some members of the Sasanian royal family were converting to Nestorianism.
A History of the Muslim World to 1405: The Making of a Civilization - Vernon O Egger - Google Books
(This wasn't a quote mining operation on my part (as I am frequently accused), but was the first hit under a book search on Iraqi population of the 7th century.
Google )
Now my question is why we have to keep making modern day western Christians innocent of this shameful reality of intolerance? The Persians took Jerusalem in 614 C.E. and held it for a few decades. The Jews and Christians were free to travel and worship in Israel/Palestine during those 2 decades. Otherwise the Christians were persecuted badly by Byzantine Empire and it was all the way back at 500 A.D. and earlier when the persecution existed and the Holy Land was free of the Roman Papacy after 476.
I'm trying to figure out why you keep describing yourself as one of the persecuted (you obsessed over the pre-Constantine Roman Empire a million times over as a time when YOU would be thrown to lions), yet you seem to love the post-Nicea period up to a point.
When exactly did you start to disagree with the theology of the Roman Empire? Remember that Christians in Egypt, Palestine, Syria were very much persecuted in the days BEFORE Justinian and Theodora. The records are very clear on that one.

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 Message 50 by Faith, posted 08-14-2016 4:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2496
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 120 of 203 (789805)
08-19-2016 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-13-2016 11:48 AM


GIA on Gnostic Christians.
quote:
Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges
Gnostic Christianity had a negative view of Jesus?
Try that one again.
It does seem that "Gnostic" thought evolved out of Christian religion, though as many historians say that Gnosticism and Christianity had independent origins then the two merged into Gnostic Christianity.
It is certain that the "demiurge" strains of Christian Gnosticism came later than the initial Gnosticism. Christian Gnosticism didn't start till after 100 A.D. and it was very much fundamentalist and Jewish Christian when it first started (based on the evidence I have seen). There wasn't an anti-Jesus strain at all however. Not in the endless varieties of Gnosticism (early or late). Do you know something we don't?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-13-2016 11:48 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 08-19-2016 11:58 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 123 by Greatest I am, posted 09-07-2016 2:27 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
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