|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,483 Year: 3,740/9,624 Month: 611/974 Week: 224/276 Day: 64/34 Hour: 1/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Still small voice of God found | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
quote: https://www.sciencedaily.com/...ses/2016/08/160815185612.htmJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Humans are capable of empathy No Phat, humans are incapable of NOT having empathy - unless there's something very wrong with them - psychopathy for example.
It is a gift No again Phat, it's just another emotion like love, anger, happiness etc. These are necessary features - if we didn't have empathy our society would not work. It's simply another evolved trait. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: ...and evolution is a gift - from God. Good, can I take it from that comment that you now accept that empathy is an evolved trait and not a little voice in your head directly from god?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: The two things are not mutually exclusive. Well let's see. We have fMRI scans that show when and where the processing of empathy happens and can induce those feelings at will. On the other hand we have what exactly?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: I have no idea what you have but I have a belief What's that got to do with the price of fish?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: That still small voice is infectious the way it evolves eh. In as much as I have any clue what you mean, empathy is quite definitely infectious in that you catch it from your parents. Unless you're very unlucky. So perhaps you could answer the question? Is empathy an evolved trait?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: The still small voice of God that is IMHO responsible for our conscience was there from the beginning, and so we feel a twinge of guilt when we make the wrong moral choice, although ultimately I suppose some people can push that so far into the background that is virtually silenced. Do you see this brain function - which it is now demonstrated that is what empathy is - is somehow different from say, hate? Or any other emotion you care to mention? Is it only the brain function of empathy that is god given? If so, wither hate?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: I suggest that our basic nature is to look out for number one as we see largely in the animal world, although I do agree that animals can be infected with the empathy virus as well. Looking after others as well as yourself is extremely common in the animal kindom. In fact it's a necessity for those animals that give birth to offspring that need looking after until they can look after themselves. That's all mammals and birds. Many organisms will sacrifice themselves to save their offspring or communities - this is shown in spectacular way in social animals like ants and bees. The ability to live as a social group utterly depends on the evolved instinct of empathy. It also relies on other evolved features like aggression and attraction.
It seems to me that we start off life this way and during our lives we learn empathy from the love of our parents and others, or we might have our selfishness reinforced and hate flows from that. This is very simplistic, but we do know that our upbringing affects an individual's ability to empathise with others. But the ability to do it at all is endemic - it's a brain function.
It is hate that we allow to develop when something or someone stands in the way of what we want and is an extension of our basic nature. So it's natural. Exactly like empathy
Our natural instinct then is to be strong and have power over others in order to be one of the fittest genetically and other wise. It is why our natural inclination is to seek out strong healthy mates. This is only one part of us, the other sides of us include the things you like - empathy, love, co-operation etc. They are all natural traits that allow us to succeed as a social species. Without the full set, we couldn't survive. For some reason, you seems to want to claim the 'good' instincts for god and the 'bad' ones for nature. They're all of a piece. By identifying brain functions for them and showing them in other species - monkeys are a great example - we can show that they're simply evolved traits like all others. Your 'still small voice' is a naturally occurring brain function. We can now watch it at work.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: I'm interested in the processes but the point is whether or not the processes are the result of an intelligent prime mover or not. Can non-intelligence beget intelligence. I don't believe that it can. Obviously you do. We see it happen every day - children are born, they grow, they develop emotions and intelligence. It's a natural process. God is not involved. Did god do it the first time - who knows, not you or I, but the evidence is that all our traits are evolved and we have similar analogues in other species. So that's the best bet given we've got zip evidence for anything else.
Also, our thoughts are the result of numerous inputs. We have no way of accurately discerning whether or not that still small voice as our conscience is one of them. That's bizarre - they've watched it at work, are you saying this is god making the brain light up?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
Phat writes: I may have mentioned before that I do not believe in chance. The universe doesn't care - chance exists and can be proven to exist.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: So how do you determine chance if you cannot determine probability? In a coin toss p = .5; there you go, chance is proven - go test it yourself.
Also...all three of these documents are arrogant, unsubstantiated, and far from conclusive. Well thanks for the random insight. Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: Except that we can draw our own conclusions about whether or not there is anything else going on beyond what is obvious. Sure, we can make shit up without evidence and replace rational thought with wishful thinking. It's a process mankind has used for thousands of years. Happily, it's now changing - even your beliefs are much diluted compared to your ancestors. We've chased all Gods back to into deism and may well go further.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: And thats the problem. You have effectively replace God with human wisdom. And you see no problem with that. Problem??? Why could there possibly be a problem? You need to explain why knowledge and human progress is a problem.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Are you concluding that from mindlessness, mindfulness formed? Of course, how on earth else do you think it happens? Do you have god intervening at each birth to insert a mind?? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: Certainly we can see that there are natural processes involved Please point to an single unnatural process that is involved.
but we cannot tell whether or not evolution has an intelligent agent as its cause or not. Yet we have enormous quantities of evidence that it's entirely a natural process and absolutely none that it's not. Unless, of course, you can tell us otherwise.
I believe that it does. Yup, that's all you have. And it doesn't bother you at all that that's all you have. But it should. Nevertheless, you're a product of the new age. You're forced to accept knowledge. Your beliefs are liberal Christian. Soon, like the majority of Northen Europe those beliefs will generalise further; that's progress. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024