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Author Topic:   A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 1417 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 17 of 175 (789914)
08-22-2016 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
08-22-2016 5:32 AM


Re: Where is the problem?
Phat writes:

Humanists believe in humans more than they believe in God. Thus we disagree.

Humans can be shown to exist. Gods cannot. It's not about believing in humans over God, it's just practical. We should be thinking long term about the future of our species. We owe it to our descendants to stop our wasteful, irresponsible system from destroying their inheritance. At the end of the day, our future generations are the only way that we know for sure, life goes on.

I have a hypothetical for you Phat. Suppose humanism swept the globe in the next decade. People everywhere more or less abandoned God in favour of co-operative human advancement. Fast forward another decade or two and everything is going well, we've built infrastructure in the third world so that everyone has the basics, almost stopped violence with relentless promotion of co-operation and the visible benefits that come with it, people are flourishing. How could God not see this as good? His own vanity? I understand you don't believe we could actually get to that point after abandoning God, yes? Would he intervene to prevent our peace and prosperity?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 5:32 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 08-22-2016 9:45 AM Riggamortis has not yet responded
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 9:54 AM Riggamortis has not yet responded

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 1417 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(1)
Message 45 of 175 (790389)
08-30-2016 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
08-29-2016 3:42 AM


Re: The Need For Divine Intervention
You seem to acknowledge that your fears are irrational, bravo!

I wish I could be so optimistic, but I am haunted by the beliefs that I adopted which said that in the so-called End Times people would reject organized religion and embrace just this sort of philosophy. A character known as the AntiChrist would then come to power and cause living hell for 7 years or so before Jesus came back and took names...correcting the evil attempt at dominance. Im not sure exactly what I believe regarding end times any more.

If you view the bible as simply an ancient code of living, authority and law, it is plain to see that the end times dogma is just an empty threat. Likewise with hell, threaten the people to ensure they are good little believers. It's no wonder they found that religious people are more responsive to fear.

If jar is right and Original Sin was only a made-up con job than this statement will work. Otherwise we are headed for trouble.

And if I am right, original sin is largely responsible for our apparently greedy etc, nature. If you tell everyone as children that humans are bad and greedy, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Epigenetic effects and the way our brains are wired throughout our growth determine our personalities to a far greater extent than genetics alone.

Finally, even though i am a dogmatic obstructionist at heart, I am one of the better ones...for I am smarter than most of them. I worry about what the Biblical Christians will do when faced with the possibility of such a world.

I agree with the former, but would add that I think it has more to do with allowing yourself to think freely, than brute intelligence.

If a world govt system is put in place by the current mob of plutocrats, under the same financial system, I will not welcome it either.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 08-29-2016 3:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 1417 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 46 of 175 (790390)
08-30-2016 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
08-29-2016 3:42 AM


Re: The Need For Divine Intervention
You seem to acknowledge that your fears are irrational, bravo!

I wish I could be so optimistic, but I am haunted by the beliefs that I adopted which said that in the so-called End Times people would reject organized religion and embrace just this sort of philosophy. A character known as the AntiChrist would then come to power and cause living hell for 7 years or so before Jesus came back and took names...correcting the evil attempt at dominance. Im not sure exactly what I believe regarding end times any more.

If you view the bible as simply an ancient code of living, authority and law, it is plain to see that the end times dogma is just an empty threat. Likewise with hell, threaten the people to ensure they are good little believers. It's no wonder they found that religious people are more responsive to fear.

If jar is right and Original Sin was only a made-up con job than this statement will work. Otherwise we are headed for trouble.

And if I am right, original sin is largely responsible for our apparently greedy etc, nature. If you tell everyone as children that humans are bad and greedy, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Epigenetic effects and the way our brains are wired throughout our growth determine our personalities to a far greater extent than genetics alone.

Finally, even though i am a dogmatic obstructionist at heart, I am one of the better ones...for I am smarter than most of them. I worry about what the Biblical Christians will do when faced with the possibility of such a world.

I agree with the former, but would add that I think it has more to do with allowing yourself to think freely, than brute intelligence.

If a world govt system is put in place by the current mob of plutocrats, under the same financial system, I will not welcome it either.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 08-29-2016 3:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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