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Author Topic:   A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 27 of 175 (789929)
08-22-2016 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
08-22-2016 10:53 AM


Re: The Need For Divine Intervention
Phat writes:

Divine Intervention is needed if humans fail.


Like they failed before the Flood? Kill them all and let God sort them out?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 08-22-2016 10:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 42 of 175 (790328)
08-29-2016 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
08-29-2016 10:37 AM


Re: End Times?
Phat writes:

... the Humanist manifestos are similar to what many Christian End Timers have been saying will be the new touchy feely global religion---


The Christian End Timers have a vested interest in circling the wagons against the world. "Bring your cash inside the circle. Don't waste it on touchy feely things like feeding the hungry. Give it to us and we'll use it for the Glory of God."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 08-29-2016 10:37 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 08-29-2016 3:45 PM ringo has responded
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 08-29-2016 5:09 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 48 of 175 (790447)
08-30-2016 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
08-29-2016 3:45 PM


Re: End Times?
Phat writes:

What we worry about is the idea that god is in all of us and that an external Deity is un needed. This will prove to be a giant lie for society...to fall for this innocent and benevolent sounding altruistic belief.


Matthew 25. It's what Jesus said.

You don't have to say, "Lord! Lord!" That is unneeded.

What is needed is to be benevolent and altruistic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 08-29-2016 3:45 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 49 of 175 (790449)
08-30-2016 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
08-29-2016 5:09 PM


Re: End Times?
Faith writes:

The basic idea is that the world will be run by fallen humanity, though calling itself Christianity, and everybody is going to love the Antichrist -- except the real Christians --


I know what the fundies think. The point is that they're wrong.

It's the fundies who will follow the AntiChrist while the rest of the world gets more secular. Fundies are just itching for somebody like Ronald Reagan to take us back to the "good old days". THAT is the AntiChrist, who offers the (fundy) world easy solutions to their problems.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 08-29-2016 5:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 08-30-2016 12:20 PM ringo has responded
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 06-19-2017 1:35 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 51 of 175 (790464)
08-30-2016 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
08-30-2016 12:20 PM


Re: End Times?
Phat writes:

I don't plan to vote for Trump.


That's why I used Reagan as an example. When he rises from the dead, the prophecy will be fulfilled.

Phat writes:

Jesus would have no problem suffering...but we do.


I don't think the humanists are promising a magical end to blood, sweat, toil and tears like some Christians are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 08-30-2016 12:20 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(6)
Message 58 of 175 (791540)
09-16-2016 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
09-16-2016 1:07 PM


Re: Where is the problem?
Phat writes:

... I believe that I was filled with a new worldview.


I changed too, when I got rid of the God baggage. I think I became a better person by taking responsibility for myself instead of using "God's will" as an excuse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 09-16-2016 1:07 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 63 of 175 (812828)
06-20-2017 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
06-19-2017 1:35 PM


Re: End Times?
Phat writes:

As you know, conservative Christians warn this to be an omen of a false global religion.


Conservative Christians will grasp at every straw to justify their paranoia. "The millennium" has been any minute now for more than a millennium. Two millennia from now, when Botswana is the world superpower, conservative Christians will call it a fulfillment of prophecy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 06-19-2017 1:35 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 06-21-2017 1:52 PM ringo has responded
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 06-26-2017 3:17 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 67 of 175 (812950)
06-21-2017 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
06-21-2017 1:52 PM


Re: End Times?
Phat writes:

Critics would say that the liberal Christians will embrace the fake new world religion. Comments?


Conservative Christians have already embraced a fake religion.

"New world religion" is a fantasy. The importance of religion is declining and the existing religions are fragmenting.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 06-21-2017 1:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 70 of 175 (813328)
06-26-2017 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
06-26-2017 3:17 AM


Re: The Right To Refuse Service
Phat writes:

What I suggest is that if it DID happen, and IF the GOD I market were real, you likely would defiantly refuse Him even to the point of death...


Why do you keep saying that? How many times do I have to tell you it isn't true?

Phat writes:

And yet the importance of relationship is at an all time high.


You have not demonstrated that your religion includes any "relationship" with God. The importance of relationship may be at an all time high - whatever that means - but do fake relationships or imagined relationships count?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 06-26-2017 3:17 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 06-27-2017 1:12 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 73 of 175 (813441)
06-27-2017 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
06-27-2017 1:12 PM


Re: Imagine If You Dare
Phat writes:

How would such a relationship be demonstrated?


You tell me. You're the one who claims to have the relationship. How is your relationship with God different from my relationship with long John Silver?

Phat writes:

Otherwise, we have a huge traffic jam behind a lack of evidence.


Yes, we do. A traffic jam is not something that can just be ignored.

Phat writes:

My point is the God I market won't give you the evidence.


And I'm not buyin' it.

Phat writes:

I assert that you use the lack of evidence as a sticking point and won't step into belief.


When I'm buying a car, if it won't run that's a sticking point. Yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 06-27-2017 1:12 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-27-2017 2:12 PM ringo has responded
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 06-27-2017 10:57 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 76 of 175 (813558)
06-28-2017 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by New Cat's Eye
06-27-2017 2:12 PM


Re: Imagine If You Dare
New Cat's Eye writes:


God responds


Not to me He doesn't. Haven't we been through this before?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-27-2017 2:12 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-28-2017 3:42 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 77 of 175 (813559)
06-28-2017 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
06-27-2017 10:57 PM


Re: Imagine If You Dare
Phat writes:

The point is that you are not "buying" a belief.


You admit that you're marketing a belief.

Phat writes:

So whats the difference between refusing the God I market and not buying it?


I'm not buying it because I don't believe a real God would hide. I refuse to accept your excuse that your God is hiding. If He came out of hiding I would not refuse Him.

Phat writes:

You refuse to believe without evidence. True or False?


I've told you more than once before, belief and evidence are not related. if there is evidence, you don't need belief. If there is no evidence, you're allowed to believe but one belief is as good as another.

Phat writes:

New Cats Eye has not seen the product but has seen the results.


I've seen the "results" too and many of them are bad.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 06-27-2017 10:57 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 79 of 175 (813566)
06-28-2017 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by New Cat's Eye
06-28-2017 3:42 PM


Re: Imagine If You Dare
New Cat's Eye writes:

... it's still the difference between my relationship with God and your relationship with long John Silver.

You claim that God responds to you. If I claimed that Long John Silver responds to me, people would call me crazy. So why shouldn't we call you equally crazy?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-28-2017 3:42 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-28-2017 3:57 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 81 of 175 (813570)
06-28-2017 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by New Cat's Eye
06-28-2017 3:57 PM


Re: Imagine If You Dare
New Cat's Eye writes:

We know that Long John Silver is a fictional character....


We also know that (your) God is a fictional character. Just ask a billion Muslims.

New Cat's Eye writes:

... a lot of people talk about their relationship with God.


A lot of people have a "personal relationship" with their favourite soap opera too.

New Cat's Eye writes:

But you can still call me crazy if you want to.


I'm just saying you're not fundamentally different from me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-28-2017 3:57 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 06-28-2017 8:31 PM ringo has responded
 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-28-2017 10:47 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 86 of 175 (813642)
06-29-2017 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Phat
06-28-2017 8:31 PM


Re: Imagine If You Dare
Phat writes:

After all, if you found no evidence, there is no reason to believe that any other human could possibly find any.


Correct. Evidence is evident.

Phat writes:

I agree with jar who claims that Islam, Christianity, and Judaism worship the same God.


Some Muslims, Christians and Jews would agree. Some wouldn't.

What about the Egyptian gods or the Greek gods or the Hindu gods or the Norse gods? Don't you consider them fictional characters?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 06-28-2017 8:31 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 06-29-2017 2:41 PM ringo has responded

  
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